Gold news

 [Music] [Music] I'm Charlotte McLoud with investing news.com and here today with me is soo T CEO of independent spec.com good to have you here thanks for com glad to be back on the show tro really good to be checking in with you we did just talk at vac it's just I think a little over later now at pdac and and how the world has changed it it caused although okay so one thing that we talked about at v i was how busy this show was and I think that you felt that the people there were ready to buy mining stocks so I wanted

to check in and see if you're getting the same feeling here on the show for absolutely not and I don't know if it's the foggy Toronto weather that's depressed the mood here or if it's uranium taking a breather because at the time it wasn't just everybody's buying on miny stocks uranium was definitely the buzz of the show in Vancouver and uranium deals uranium stocks the uranium price going vertical at the time and that was the bus and now lo and behold it's corrected

um and you know the gold stocks are still not getting any loves so maybe maybe people are a little bit glum on that score um of course I see that as an opportunity of course and those are two topics golden uranium that we will go deeper into where I thought we could begin though is is with gold and we're speaking on March 3rd it's a Sunday this past Friday we saw gold take off and we're kind of on a cliffhanger now and we won't post this interview as soon as we possibly can but it won't be before

one day unfortunately before the pric has chased on it but I did I did want to get your your thoughts just with that caveat so some people seem to be thinking okay this is it it's time now for G to go higher and others are thinking no not yet so just just a general sense from you maybe on what happens and what could be next well first let's take a step back and okay you we have a new nominal alltime high and goal then seems like this big breakout but we've been trading close to that for for months I mean gold has

never been at 2,000 or above on you so much I mean before it all and let alone staying there for months the which by the way is very good news for the better gold miners right and they should be printing money Handover fist at these prices so the current quarter should deliver some very interesting Financial results um but to to the to the point though it's like this isn't this huge breakout it's a $40 50 move it wasn't you know $200 in a day or it wasn't a Bitcoin style move it was

actually a fairly ordinary uptick for gold starting from a high base so for me the signific ific here is oh new nominal all-time high um and I keep stressing that because a real all-time high would be like real not asn't real but real as an adjusted for inflation would be over 3,300 so this isn't really an alltime high anyway uh so I don't see this as a huge breakout I just see it as notching a little bit higher in a trend and and some ways that's actually a good thing if it if it had just gone like this then

you know me as we last time we spoke I'd be say Hey you know after a vertical rise it would make sense to look for a correction a bit of a pullback here so I see this as more stable and the exciting thing for me and the audience if if they're familiar with our talks they know you know I'm not the jump up and down and P pound the bye bye bye button but I'm very excited this year because we're going into a circumstance where with it without my hard Landing which I still expect we've talked about the FED

is expected to cut the FED itself is saying it's going to cut and rate cuts are typically good for gold if we're going into a a rate cutting cycle with gold at nominal all-time highs already or even if it corrects if it drops a 100 bucks from here we're still close to $2,000 an ounce and you go into a rate cutting cycle from that level and that I mean that prends very very bullish things for not just the metal but for the associated equitance I this is me being very excited so just because you mentioned

Bitcoin so Bitcoin also moving this past week we have stock market indexes going upward and we have gold also moving and it's interesting to me because you hear things like you know Bitcoin still stealing attention from gold tech stocks and AI also stealing attention but everything is kind of going upward so can you help me make sense of that well the easy answer is the Fed wa it what happened Friday was is interesting particularly interesting because Thursday we got pce the fed's favorite

form of mismeasuring inflation so you know and that was kind of a a nothing day like you know the markets wobbled and kind of sideways there was there was no big movement on the supposedly really important economic statistic the feds a form you know that's the gold post instead nothing much and then Friday fireworks but what happened Friday well we got you know decidedly weaker than expected Manufacturing pmis in the US so more signs of distress on Main Street which you know we've seen for years now is good news on Wall

Street and we got the the confirmation read from University of Michigan consumer sentiment which was surprisingly negative so again bad news for Main Street and we've seen this show repeatedly recent years good news for Wall Street because the FED is expected to cut now remember until when we spoke last time the Fed was really pounding the table on no rate kites anytime soon higher for longer po will probably say something like that again coming right up but you know the markets were finally

starting to believe the fed and then after these surprise numbers came out two days ago the market suddenly let well you know maybe the FED will have to cut sooner than we were thinking and so the the rates you can see the rates are now there's actually 4% chance back on the table of a rate cut this month where it was like effectively zero before repres not a lot but but it's it goes way up in May and much higher in June in June it's more than 50/50 that the FED is going to be cutting so that's H1 of

this year not you know sometime later or maybe next year so there was a big change in Market sentiment of Oh yay more bad news yeah the fed's going to have to cut sooner and so risk assets went up Bitcoin is a risk asset though actually I think Bitcoin has more to do with the having and the new Bitcoin ETFs have helped like that there is Skeptics aside you know there is new money coming to the table you made it easier for people to buy into that highly volatile uh speculation vehicle and some people are

taking the taking that up so yeah some money is going there okay and so you mentioned the golden stocks and I think I think everybody is probably aware if they follow you of the opportunity that you see in our gold stocks and we've we've talked about this I don't think that we have discussed together what will make them go up I know you're happy right now because you can still for bargain but you know I think it's worth asking because a lot of people are looking at the gold price and they

Wonder okay when would this actually happen alltime high and gold didn't do it what would right I could get it right I I just gave my talk over here and I was saying how many people think there's something broken in the gold market how many people feel like things aren't working the way they should most of the audience put their hand up uh so but I get it like that's that's the sentiment that's the bear sentiment we've been struggling with for more than a year now um and but I actually think that Friday

was the proof of the pudding that gold stocks moved Friday so okay they they didn't hit new all-time highs as well but they did move they they they've been like you think they were knocked out on the M of the boxing ring and they couldn't get up but they picked themselves up fr The Good the Bad the Ugly you know I looked at a whole set of them and it wasn't just you know the biggest names in the space that immediately got a bid but some of them did well as well it was mid- tiers it

was Juniors it was explorers you know the lot of gold stocks and did really well um and that's what we want to see so I'm not saying this is it We're Off to the Races Don it's G bye bye bye right now because it's straight up to the Moon you know we don't know that uh as as we said this wasn't this huge breakout it's more of a staggering higher as we go uh so I think this is actually good news for the buyers But to answer your question what would make it go I don't think it's just a new nominal

high like that I think though that the fact that we did see the stocks move begins to indicate the answer your question so more of that bigger of that more consistent of that so if we close um not just a few pennies but significantly over 2100 and we do it not just for one day then with like if we like if 2100 is the new 2000 then at some point all these people who are thinking that gold is spiked and has to go down they have to at some point they have to realize you know what it's not going down it it's putting in

higher highs it's it's building another Plateau here at an even higher price so basically I'm looking for Bear capitulation and we haven't seen that since 2020 the Bears have really been a dominant force and I I can't blame the recency bias being what it is and the history of gold spikes being what it is it spikes and it comes back the Bears are not wrong to look at Gold Strike record and say you know what going up to 2000 it should go back down like historically that's what you would

expect but I do think the game has changed I don't think it's it's 2011 all over again um and I think when people realize that when the Bears capitulate we will see not just the gold stocks finally you know catching up with gold I think they'll more than catch up I I think we will see uh if not a a Mania you know maybe it's not Nvidia scale Mania AI Mania but I think we will see a lot of money pile into this space and and substantial gains for longsuffering gold bugs fingers cross and you mentioned the gold

producers should be looking quite good in the coming course but I think most of them if not all have okay the better ones okay how we we've gotten the results though from 2023 so how did those look to you oh 2023 we're still ramping up I I think well there's bigger producers there mid I mean there's all there's Junior producers so not all producers are alike and even some of the bigger players have had idiosyncratic is the word we like to use in financial media these days you know company specific

issues holding them back so it's very much a stock Pickers marker but it's it's not just that they're unloved for no reason a lot of them have struggled with cost blowouts higher Opex uh you know missing guidance and the last big bll and goal it's funny that that the company's kind of w nuts with buying ounces regardless not regardless but with let's say with less due diligence on the quality of those ansers just get more ounces on the books and they got rewarded in the up

phase for buying gold Juniors that had a lot of you know multi-million Elis right um and then afterwards it turns out a lot of those Acquisitions weren't so great and they and you know the the the big players got taken behind the Woodshed and taught a lesson on that so this time they're not doing that we've seen I think much less m&a than you would think at $2,000 plus gold where is the m&a well management got pounded for getting carried away with the m&a last time so I think they're being more

judicious this time so instead they're making a different set of mistakes and sorry but just I mean there's been a lot of underperformance and you know more power to it there's there's a there's a smaller number of companies out there instead of promising the moon and then failing to deliver they under promise and overd deliver so if there's a there's a happy takeaway here dear audience is that you've got a bit of a litmus test you can this bearish sentiment is sorting

the wheat from the chat you can see which companies are overd delivering and that's a very good thing um one more thing sorry this this is not happy news it's on my mind because I just talked about it in in my presentation and that is in this world of passive investing you know there's ETFs now not just an ETF so you can buy the underlying commodity but if you if you don't have if you don't feel confident in your own ability to pick the right ones you can buy a minor ETF now just

wasn't there 20 years ago so you can you know offload that decision making them somebody else and you do more or less okay the the ETFs do track the underlying Commodities and I think that is a challenge for the particularly the major producers you know even the gdxj supposedly Junior those are all Billion Dollar Plus companies they're they're oh not all but you those are not tiny Juniors so I'm not saying that the miners won't perform I'm just saying that they have competition now that wasn't there before

and so maybe expectations should be moderated and that okay I think we'll we'll leave gold there for now we'll see how it turns out tomorrow very interested to see what happens and we will move over to uranium so another big topic that we usually go over so like I had mentioned we talked back at V and you reminded us that it tends to be a two-step swoll and a one-step back but you've also to us you know is putting in a floor and about $100 per parent which we have gone so maybe get your updated thoughts on

uranium and and how we should be thinking about the price right now or how you are thinking about it well the the answer to both questions is actually pretty similar if it's natural after something goes vertical to expect some correction and consolidation and oh and behold here it is you that's just the market behaving the way it usually does if not always does so no surprises uh for anybody who listen to me didn't get send me all that hey I got so much hate for saying that it was the it was the

flavor of the moment people were so excited I was told later that it was like my fault that you're radi corrected for talking it down I I wish I had that power if I could only control markets with my words that boy but I'd be a much wealthier wolf but anyway so this is Marcus doing what they do I did say that it seemed to me that uranium was building a floor at 100 and we've gone below that so whoa I was wrong but you know what if the incentive price that we were looking forward to for years was

$780 uranium and Gold's fluctuated from 106 to 96 I'm not worried we're well above the incentive price if if not at Vancouver but when we spoke in New Orleans I you know I was happy to see your anual breaking out as I expected I was already starting to sound the warning hey this is great but nothing goes up forever um and at the time you know there were some people like Justin Hune whom you've interviewed who are saying Kazakhstan is not going to be able to live up to their expectations and you know this is very

bullish and you know I I I think all all respect do it ad Justin as he nailed it but you know we hear expert telling us these things and until we actually have the proof in the pudding I'm cautious about putting too much weight on any experts predictions so I I wanted to see the proof and the pudding and we got it so after New Orleans then we started seeing the uranium go up and then after Vancouver that's when we actually got kamiko and Kazam prom report and both of them reporting struggles with production uh

one of them slashing guidance not the other but still both of them reporting significant uh production issues and and Justin was right and then so this was was a this was a a real game changer in my view and as your audience who's listened to you and watched us talk before will remember I said okay you know uranium was my highest conviction trade for 2023 this year 2024 it's go so I'd moved so because Justin was right because we're seeing the proof in the pudding and even better yet because

we've had a correction and so there's opportunities on the table again I'm putting uranium back on the table again I'm I'm actually as bullish again now on uranium as I am on gold for this year I think both are going to do really well that's what I mean by game Ching you that that supply that isn't going to be there this year by itself is a game Cher and then remember it's not just the slash guidance cuz Adam bom actually produced less uranium in 23 than it did in

22 so who knows if they'll even be able to produce as much this year we'll see you as far as we know they're working on solving their problems but they haven't yet so so this is really really bullish again this is this is the equivalent of me jumping up and down right you this is exciting I have changed my tune I changed my tune I put uranium back on the table as things that I'm looking to buy because of this development uh it was very encouraging so the good news I mean the good news is oh uranium is

crashed all the way down to the mid to low 90s well if you missed uranium last year that is very good news and okay can it go lower yes I don't I don't know when this correction bottoms where it bottoms or how long but I see it as an opportunity already if I had no uranium stocks I would go out next week and buy some since I do I'm being more selective I'm looking to see where if I had fought higher if I could average down I would go there if not I would wait to see how much lower it goes see where we put in a

bottom maybe that as is I'm mostly focused on seeing if I can find a quality uranium play that got away from me before that now has come back a little bit cuz that would be very interesting to me oh probably probably good to be here then with all with other companies there you go yeah and okay maybe one more question on what's going on with the price so we've established that it wasn't your comments that have led to this this it was you yeah so but then I think we we should look at what what is

it it's just is it just because it went a little bit far and it has to come back down for me when I was seeing this happening it seemed to coincide and people didn't seem to like the chemical results and I was kind of putting those things together in weine but for you what what is the reason behind what's going on with the price yeah the correction didn't really go my view um and and if anything the chemical results were an argument like Cho itself went down but uranium went up at the time cuz

part of what camoo said is yes we're going to continue hedging and we're going to be buying in the market and you know that's the right thing to do and people didn't like that at all they they uranium bows like why why would you add it's going up and to be fair and I'm I don't own camoo I'm not recommending camoo but this is why camoo survived all those years when you know when you had 8 pound dollars a pound uranium you know so I can't fault management for saying

yes we're hedging and yes we're going to continue hedging yeah things look great now but what if things start what if there's another Chernobyl scale event right the existing nuclear power plants will still need fuel but if the Spock Market goes to right it'll be camoo contracts that keep that company alive even if the rest of the industry Withers up and blows away in the wind cako would still survive because of this thing that people are giving them hate for so I don't I don't

hate cako at all I think management is doing the right thing for a company of that size which isn't even just a minor anymore like vertically integrated and all stuff so I just you know stop wasting time hating people guys you know look for look for opportunities you can love and just don't like that one just leave it aside uh I've lost track of your question Charlotte I got distracted with a camoo thing oh the timing right or why why but why 106 10650 or whatever it was that was a lot you know it really had gone up

you know I was early in saying it would correct but I was right I don't I don't think it needed a proximal cause you know it can be the straw that broke the camel's back can be anything that that straw isn't important it was the fact that the camel was overloaded that was important so correction was to be expected we got one no big headline I absolutely see that as an opportunity don't know where bottoms but if I wasn't long already I would see this as a buying opportunity

now okay and I I think that sorts that out qu quite nicely I have one more question on car call I did have a pretty interesting discussion with Justin about Caraco and everything that was going on there and it's made me kind of start thinking about you know all right so the utilities are back in the market they're buying companies are signing contracts and I'm it made me start thinking about what investors should look for in terms of those things and I know that's one of the parts of the market that is quite

opaque but do you have any thoughts surrounding that it is you know frustrating the OPA but we are seeing indications like we saw another Junior and I won't name it uh but they said they were signing contracts now in the high 7s to High 90s like almost a $100 range long-term contracts and so okay that's not triple digit prices but it's close in the high end you know it's that's very close so if a if a company right now is able to sign a contract for up to 98 bucks a pound that's that's really good

especially if you're Allin cost is like half that and so you frustrating the opaque but we are starting to see reports like that and then after after the fact and you look in their quarterly so you can work out you know what they're actually getting per pound we'll see that but and and oh by the way ciko itself since we have mentioned that one you know they are talking about triple triple digit pricing and some of their Contracting going forward the the fact that buyers are willing to have those conversations with

them so so if if anybody's looking at that chart right the uranium chart rolled over kind of wiggled and went back it looks a little bit like a McDonald sign at the top of the chart and but now it's really dropped off sharply if anybody's looking at that and thinking oh my gosh that was it that was the peak it's going down now big time it's going to crash whatever could happen I can't promise that it won't but I can tell you that if camoo is having serious conversations

with Buyers at triple digit uranium prices that I'm not worried about uranium going low on okay so I will let you go in just a moment but to to Su up we've got L we've got uranium back on the table usually we talk about now things are there any other Nows at the moment oh no forget about inevitable or imminent I want happening now so the answer is no actually right now it's just the two yellow Metals okay it's uranium oxide it's not a metal of that form but anyway just those two I do my two favorite things of

what to look for next though once the recession is either I'm wrong and there's no recession or I'm right and it's in the rearview mirror the very first things I'm looking at are oil and cup these are absolutely just I mean that's as close as a sure thing as I think there exists in resource speculation both will come screaming back uh copper might be a little bit more downside resistant oil is more volatile for some reason but both could be in for more pain if I'm right about the

recession and if I'm wrong I don't think either one of them is going to take off tomorrow so and that you know the risk reward makes makes it prudent I think to wait and see if I'm right if I am then we'll have you know great opportunities to buy Bargains and if I'm not we might have to pay a bit more but there'll be plenty of time to make money as the as the prices go up again okay I will I will save those on for a future conversation I don't think we've ever really touched extensively on oil so

that would be interesting but thank you for coming by today to go over the gold and the iranium well thank you Sean of course once again I'm Charlotte McLoud with investing . and this is local with independent spec.com [Music]