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 [Music] I'm Charlotte Mloud with investingnews.com and here today with me is Jordan Roy Burn. He's a chartered market technician and master of financial technical analysis and he's also the editor and publisher of the Daily Gold. Thank you so much for being here. Great to have you. Hey Charlotte, thank you so much for having me. It's my pleasure to be here. Really good to be catching up with you. I think it's probably the perfect time because you've just released your book which is called

Gold and Silver, the greatest bull market has begun. So, we're going to make that the focus of our conversation today some of the topics that you went over in the book. So, I thought we could start a little bit with the basics. You talk about in the introduction how gold has broken out of this 13-year cup and handle pattern. So I thought we could go back and look at how that developed when the breakout came about and and why that's important. So the the major breakout uh that transpired uh of course last year March

of 2024 uh you had this pattern developing uh for several years and I started writing the book about uh two or 3 years ago and uh you know some things had ch have changed you know specifically uh the secular bare market and bonds like that became really obvious in the in the past few years so that's been a big driver for gold similarly uh it also happened in the mid mid 1960s when as we were talking the gold stocks had this huge breakout in 1965 and gold that's important because gold stocks functioned as gold then. So

that that's kind of the history the historical comparison for this breakout in gold but it's signific significant because anytime you get a breakout from a really long pattern like that that sets the stage for you know depending on the asset class but um you know you usually really really strong performance for the next 10 years. You know, sometimes with respect to gold, the gold market, it can be a little shorter because you get these huge sharp moves after the breakout. When you're looking

at a stock market, for example, the S&P broke out from a 13-year base from 2000 to 2013. And what have we seen? You know, a really strong move uh for 11 plus years there. Of course, the stock market had the big breakout in 1982. The Dow broke out from a 16-year pattern. Another example, the stock market broke out. Uh it did have a somewhat similar cup and handle from about 1937 to 1950. And in 1950 to 57 was maybe the strongest 7-year period in history for the stock market. So when you it's when

you break out uh from a long base like that, it it's a really important thing because it it's really a secular move where it sets the table for a market that's going to outperform for at least a decade moving forward. So that's the significance of that breakout in gold. And I mean it it happened at the same time as the S&P which is is still rising. And so the secular bull market, the S&P is ongoing. I mean maybe it's ending now as we're speaking. I mean we you know we won't know for a while but

um you know in the book I kind of wanted to put all these things uh in their proper context because the way things are setting up is very similar to the mid60s the late60s and uh that period of course of the late60s and the 70s like we're setting up for a period that's very similar to that and and much less so to to uh the 2000s or the 1930s. Yeah. I think maybe let's talk a little bit more about the similarities you see between now and the 1960s because I hear a lot of different comparisons about the

time we're in now versus times in the past. So, what are you seeing that's that's lining up? Well, a big comparison and a big similarity is if you look at the 100red-year period from 1920 to 2020, there was only one secular bare market in bonds. Only one period where long-term yields were rising. That was about 1965 to 1982 or maybe you could say early 1960s to 1982. So again, that's a 100-year period where only 17 or 20 years in that period, again, early to mid60s in 1982, that's the only time bonds were in a

secular bear. And you know, based on the work that I've looked at in the book and various moving averages after CO when yields went down to, you know, nearly zero that and they, of course, we had the big selloff a couple years ago in bonds that is confirmed that bonds are in a new secular bare market. So again, the only other the only other period we can compare to that is the mid1 1960s. So that's one comparison. Then when you look at well gold's been going up, but the stock market is go usually they're

not going up at the same time in a big picture. Uh 19 when you and you look at the 1960s, you couldn't buy gold, but so gold stocks basically functioned as gold then. So, you know, again, you had gold stocks were moving up at the same time as the stock market. They were making higher highs. Uh they were both in secular bulls, which is really, really unusual. Again, the only other time that happened was the mid to late 1960s. Uh and and so also in the mid to late 1960s, the S&P was I mean, you had a

breakout in inflation, I think, in 1965. So, the stock market in the mid the mid 1960s, it really started to slow down. it was, you know, getting towards the end of its secular bull. And so looking at where we are now, you the secular bull started in 2009 for the stock market and, you know, it's getting, you know, whether it it you know, ended a month ago or it ends in a few years, that's getting really close to its end. Uh, and you know, as I said, the huge breakout in gold of the cup and handle

pattern, uh, that's, you know, that's best explained by gold stocks in the mid60s, which again functioned as gold. They broke out of a 28-year base in 1965. So all these things, you look at all these things, they're they're lining up, at least where we are here and now, uh, the mid1 1960s. I mean, as we move forward in a few years or so, we'll, you know, be that maybe the the analog at that point will be, you know, around the early '7s or, you know, maybe with where we are here and now, the early '7s is a

is a better comparison. But so from a market point of view and the way markets are moving, the big picture trends, it's lining up with the 1960s. And I mean, that's such a huge difference. I mean, people will point to 2008 and 1929, but during those periods, bonds are in a secular bull. And what's interesting is when bonds are in a secular bull, that's when you get stock market crashes because people they can sell and they say, "Okay, I'll put my money in bonds." You know, they've been doing well. You

know, they're not in a they're not in a secular bear. So again, the only time they were in a secular bear was 65 to 82. And if you carefully look at the uh the cyclical bare markets in that period in stocks. Um they're they're you don't get crashes and so they're they're much different uh compared to the other periods. Uh but I mean I will say there is a lot of debt now. So that is one comparison to '08 and 1929. But there's there's just no, you know, other than

that there's really no similar comparison. 2008. Remember, precious metals were in the middle of a secular bull. They had already been going up for seven or eight years versus where we are here and now. They've only been going up for a couple years. And I mean, as we're probably going to get to, which I talk about in the book, just in the last week or two, we see gold breaking out against the 6040 portfolio, the investment conventional investment portfolio, and gold finally breaking out against the

stock market, breaking out from a 4-year base. So those moves are setting the stage for or or confirming uh that a real secular bull market in precious metals is now beginning. And in the book, you know, I talk about we need that to happen for more, you know, because until that happens, money is is still buying stocks and conventional investments. And so now that we see that happening, what that tells us is that more capital doesn't mean every person who owns stocks is going to buy gold, but slowly more of

that money is going to move into gold. And I mean, as this has happened in the past two weeks, you know, we're we're seeing stocks really starting to move up and and and the miners and some junior, they're really starting to outperform gold. So all this money is coming into the sector. And so it's a big point of why I wanted to write the book because people in the last few years they were saying, "Oh, why aren't minors performing or why aren't juniors performing?" And I touch on that in the

book. But the the biggest reason, there's two or three really big reasons, but the biggest reason is the stock market is still in a secular bull. And so when stock the stock market is in a secular bull, people can invest in that. They don't need gold. And even though gold was going up, uh, you know, people, they can just put most of their money in the stock market. Maybe they were putting a little bit into GLD, but now that gold has broken out again against the stock market in the 60/40 investment

portfolio, that tells us that more money slowly but surely and steadily, more money is going to come into precious metals and secondarily other hard assets. Yeah, this is all really interesting. And I would ask if there's any further anything further you would say about gold breaking out against the stock market and against that 60/40 portfolio because just so people understand this is something that you talk about in the book but it's happening right now as we speak. So anything you would add there?

Yeah. Well the the gold against the 6040 that ratio is it's actually breaking out of a 10-year base. So gold and again the 6040 is 60% stocks 40% bonds. Now, we know that bonds have been a disaster the last few years. So, gold has been outperforming this the 6040 for a few years, but not in an impulsive way, just a little bit. You know, there have been kind of little moves up and sharp pullbacks, but now it's finally pulling out or breaking away from a 10-year base. And by the way, silver, I mean, I

think silver just broke out from a 4-year base against the 6040. And you know, silver has more room to go, but I mean eventually in the next, you know, year or two, silver will probably break out of a 10 or 11 year base against the 6040. But that's the significance is, you know, when you look at this chart, you know, going back a 100 years, you can see, you know, with respect to the the moves in favor of gold, there's only been four since the 1920s. I mean, the first one, I think, was in 1930, then

you had 19 uh the early 1970s, and then, of course, 2000. And now we're seeing it again like we're seeing a clear breakout in that ratio and a clear breakout in gold against the S&P 500. And so that's the important thing. Uh gold against the 6040 is breaking out of out of a 10-year base. We know that th those kinds of breakouts are really really significant. And the second thing is this this doesn't like you don't see these breakouts every four years. I mean they're every you know every with

respect to gold they're every you know quarter century basically. So it it's just it's hugely significant as you were saying like we're we're right in it like we're right in the beginning of that move in the very beginning of more and more capital starting to move out of stocks to a lesser degree bonds because that's already happened. Uh and that's going to come into gold and gold stocks as well. So you have all this capital coming in the market and that it it spills over you know it it it it goes

from gold to you know the the gold stocks and then the juniors and the explorers. So the setup is there for uh the struggling parts uh of the junior mining sector uh to perform really well because now a huge amount of capital is about to come in. Okay, I'm going to definitely come back to that, but before we go there, I just want to ask about the implications of all of this for for US stocks. How how did they look moving forward in these circumstances? Yeah, it's a really good question because interestingly um if you look at

so these these breakouts that I was speaking about, gold against the stock market, gold against the 6040. So these occurred in the early 1970s. But if you look at the stock market or excuse me if you look at gold stocks um and again they functioned as gold in the 1960s. If you look at gold stocks divided by the 6040 or the stock market in 1965 they really started to break away uh from the stock market the 6040. And it makes sense because the end of 1964 they began this huge breakout move. But the reason

why that comparison is important is because the S&P the secular bull and the S&P did not end until the end of 1968. So in real terms the the stock market of the 1960s. It was basically done in the mid60s when you know when gold stocks made that huge breakout. But they still the the S&P still made a higher high a couple years later. And so that's important to today because that tells us maybe the stock market can still make a higher high in a few years. I mean, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to

do a moonshot because the the stock market high in 68 was not that much higher than the one in in ' 65 and ' 66. So I I'm leaving that possibility open where you know maybe we go through a recession in a bare market the market recovers and it's able to make a slightly higher high in the next you know two or three years potentially. So I I'm leaving I'm again I'm leaving that that possibility open and we're just you know we're not going to know um whether you know that that's feasible. I mean

we'll need more time. I mean, if we if we have a real mild recession and the market only goes down, you know, 25 27% something like that, then I'd say the odds of a, you know, a that that similar new high in a few years is definitely on the table. But if this is a real nasty recession, um, you know, and just policy makers in the US are, you know, unable to really get out of it for a little while, uh, then, you know, the outlook for the stock market is not as good. But if you look at that period, the mid60s to the

early 80s, I mean, you had these huge swings both ways. So, what'll happen is when the market recovers, uh, again, depending on where we are here and now, but when the market recovers, like you're you're not going to see this five or seven or eight year recovery, you know, where it's smooth and it goes straight up during that period. like you'll see uh you'll see a choppy recovery where maybe it only lasts a couple years and again you know the market moves up but it you know

maybe it makes a false new high because the S&P it it made another false new high actually in 1974. Uh so so that's also a possibility but um that that to me for all the reasons I've already discussed is my template you know for the next uh you know 10 15 years or so. And just another thing to mention is I'm not big into like short or medium-term cycles, but you tend to get an infla a peak in inflation every 30 years and a major uh inflation peak every 60 years. So every every 30 years,

1920 was a peak in inflation after that pandemic. 1951 commodity prices peaked. Of course, we know 1980, 1981, you know, huge blowoff move in gold, silver, and commodities. And then 2011 was the last peak. And so that's lining up for 2040. And if you look at every 60 years, so you have the Civil War in the early 1860s, then you have 1920, which was a big peak because the peaks in 1920 held up for a really, really long time. And then of course 1980. So we're we're setting up where you know looking out

over the next 10 plus years uh you know 10 to 15 year that time is ripe for um you know a significant peak in inflation which means where we are here and now you know we can see a lot of inflation of course a lot of volatility in that over the next decade or so. And what happens during an inflation period is you know stocks tend to do okay at the beginning of it but you you know you're at the beginning you're in the middle and you know maybe you think you're okay but they really kill you in the last

half of the period. So the you know the psychology on inflation being bad for stocks like that'll take some time I think for most people to understand. uh but you know valuations as far as stocks we know they're really high but in during an inflationary period that's when they come down. So that that's another uh point to make is that valuations over time will come down. So I know that was a really long answer but that's my template and outlook for the next 10 to 15 years. No I think I think

that's really helpful and and very thorough. So, thank you for for taking the time to go into it. And I'll let us go over to take a look at gold stocks right now. So, you you essentially outlined some of the reasons why they haven't yet been moving as much as some investors would hope. So, maybe we take a look at their potential in this environment and where where you see I guess the most upside. Well, it's I wrote about this a month ago or so. It's almost a perfect setup for gold stocks because if you look at

like let's talk about the fundamentals. The the uh the the best fundamental indicator for gold stocks is the inflation adjusted gold price. So gold against the CPI. So I used to think well this is not important like who cares gold against the rate of inflation. But when I looked at this I thought this looks like this looks a lot like gold the gold stock indices. So other than the 1960s which was kind of a unique period you look at the last hundred years in the uh Barren gold mining index it's it's it's very similar to the

trends in the uh inflationadjusted gold price. So it's mirrored it really really closely. So the inflationadjusted gold price right now is basically trading around uh the all-time high from 1980. So the inflationadjusted gold price is really close to breaking out of a 45-year base. So that's really significant because gold stocks follow the inflation adjusted gold price. And just one reason why it it's a good fit is because gold stocks they follow their margins or their earnings or how much you know cash

flow these mines are producing. They follow that more so than the gold price . So of course the gold price is the biggest driver but costs are also an issue and so the CPI or the rate of inflation is a really good indicator for you know not the best but it's a good enough indicator for the cost of these miners. So that's why the inflation adjusted gold price or why the gold stocks track that really really well. So this again we have a 45-year base in the inflation adjusted gold price. So that

can break out and make a really big move which will be a huge uh boom for the miners moving forward. And and as we know right now they're in really good shape. I mean they're they're putting out record numbers. So this so this could get even better over the next 12 or 18 months, you know, before inflation comes back, you know, and starts to hurt the miners like it did after uh co. Uh so that's one thing. And if you look at um valuations are they've been moving up as more money is starting to come in.

Valuations are moving up, but they're still historically really low. I mean, I think a couple months ago, uh, the gold stocks were trading at about eight times cash flow. Uh, I pieced together in my book, I pieced together a lot of history. And so, what I found is dating back to the 70s, they've traded in a range from about five times cash flow to 24 times cash flow. But if you if you bring that in a little bit, most of the time it's about six times cash flow to 20 times cash flow. So, again, couple months ago,

they were trading at only eight times cash flow. You know, they're they're probably above nine now. It's probably gone up a little bit, but still the gold stocks just based on valuation, they can move up 30 or 40%. And the valuations wouldn't be extreme. And I think that will happen anyway. So you do have you have valuation upside, you have a chance for these margins to get even better. And then technically, you look at these indexes, they're coming out of really significant bases. GDX uh just broke out

of a 4-year base at the end of last week yesterday. GoEX, which is similar to GDXJ, that broke out of a 4-year base. I know GDXJ uh I think it's made a new four-year high. So the miners are breaking out of these indices. And another one for you, I think XGD in Canada, which is the Canadian GDX basically. So if you look at that, you know, that's that's removing the impact of a strong US dollar that broke out of a 14-year base last week. So again, we were talking about how significant, you know, the cup

and handle breakout, gold breaking out against the 6040. Okay, the stocks really they're they're not breaking out a 10-year basis, but they're breaking out a four and a fiveyear basis. That's still really really significant. And what I'd say the most important thing if you look at fund flows, you know, into miners like in the last year or so, they've actually been negative. So, and and retail investor sentiment towards miners has been negative in the last year or so. And you

know another chart I have in my book if you look at the assets that are in GLD for example or GDX and G GDXJ you look at the assets divided by the total ETF assets. Um you know I have these charts on my Twitter. Uh those like again you look at the all the assets in the minor ETFs divided by all the ETFs. Like a couple months ago that was like at a 16 or 17 year low. So yeah, that just speaks to what's been happening in the last few years where again all the money has been buying stocks. You the majority

of the money has still been going into the stock market. So you put all these things together, that's why it's a perfect setup and I I published a video yesterday and I I think you could see this year the miners like this sectors they could really run hot like you know they're probably a little overbought now but again they just had this huge breakout. There's barely any money in the sector. So you have this setup where they could, you know, run hot and run overbought for most of the year because

everybody in their mind, they're still waiting. Oh, I'm worried about a correction. I'm worried about the 2008 boogeyman. You know, they're so overbought, they're going to correct because that's what happened in the last 5 or 10 years. But we're in a new paradigm. We're in a new secular bull market that has been confirmed. And you know, I I don't like to sound or want to sound like a a gold cheerleader or a cheerleader for the miners and the juniors, but they're really I mean,

they're really set up where again where they could run really hot here for the next 12 or 18 months and just make a huge move because it's all there. The technicals are there, you know, the fundamentals are there. And again, the sentiment, the amount of money, there's not that much in the sector. So those people, you know, who've been shunning the sector, they're going to slowly start to buy the miners and put their money to work. And so that's going to really, I think, prevent the miners from

having any long or significant corrections here over the next year or so. Really good to go into that as well. And I think that'll be welcome news to many people in our audience. So from what you're saying, it's it's really clear that gains are coming for gold stocks across the board. That's building right now. Do you have a preferred area of focus in terms of you know majors, midcaps, juniors that you like to look at or are you looking also all across the board? Um I mean I do look all across the board

but it's a great question because in the book um I talk about you know the best area at least that I focus that I think investors who are new to this which they should focus in and that's basically companies that are building significant mines. So you have latest stage developers or you have junior producers that are going to grow their production and at the same time those types of companies the ones that actually put money to work continuing to do exploration um you know that's a way where they

continue to they can add more value in addition to growing their production because if we look at the Lan curve for example which I'm sure everybody's familiar with you know you have that huge move down you know as it's constructing and and getting ready to build the mine and while they're doing it comes down and then you have that great buying opportunity which I mean it you know there's not a perfect for some stocks it might be 3 months before they produce or you know 9 months

or 7 months so every case is different but um you know that to me is uh the best time to buy these companies you know right before they're about to build a mine or maybe at the beginning of building it and they're set to increase their production and Um it it's just there's more predictability. I don't want to use the word certainty, but there's just more predictability with producers and and and uh um you know, developers that are building mines. It's easier to look at what they're doing.

Think about, okay, this could be the gold price. This is the margins. This how this is how much cash flow they might have at 2500 gold or 2,700 gold. This is the valuation they could trade at. Okay, you know, do they have a royalty or or you know, how much did they dilute their stock? So, it's easy to look at those things and calculate what the potential upside could be in various gold and silver price environments. And again, at the same time, those companies that are still keen on exploration and and pouring lots

of money back into exploration, uh, those are the ones you want to own because um, you know, we know that exploration can drive lots of value. And so I really, you know, looking at producers who do exploration, developers who do exploration. I think that's a real a real area where you can find hidden gems. I'm not opposed to looking at explorers and lots of those, you know, types of companies, but they're just more difficult. Like there's way more uncertainty. Like I I don't I don't

want to gamble on drill holes. I know that might sound insulting uh you know to some explorers but um you you really like you really need to be an expert if you're looking at that or you need to follow someone you really trust who is an expert you know at looking at those explorers and and the difficult thing is you know you kind of have to take a shotgun approach there where you know everybody wants to find you know the next founders medals or the next snowline gold or you know the next great

bear but you know to to find those types of comp like you you you need to invest, you know, in three or five or seven, like you need to buy a basket of the explorers because it's it's just so difficult to know which of the ones is going to make that big that big discovery and b, you know, and have the stock that ends up going to 25 or 30 bucks, you know, like great bear did. So I I'm not opposed to again I'm not opposed to looking to uh those types of exploration companies but um you know

again I like to focus more on the developers and producers. I've had the most success there. uh and I think you know people who don't have a lot of expertise they should stick with uh you know developers and junior producers you know companies that are cash flowing and earning money and and and again those there's a final point those types of companies they're really leveraged to the move in metals prices versus exploration companies the exploration companies who who have less I would say

less than like two or two and a half million ounces they they are not leveraged to metals prices. Now, if they make a big discovery, then they're they will be leveraged in metals prices. But if you're looking at a very early stage company explorer, you know, maybe it only has a million ounces or 700,000 or it's a silver stock that has, you know, they have 40 or 50 million ounces. They're more leveraged to making a discovery and growing their resource significantly. So, they're more

leveraged at that point to exploration than the actual bull market in metals prices. So that's a distinction that I think we should make because people just assume okay gold and silver going up it's a bull market let me just pick anything that's 5 or 10 cents and you know this can go to a dollar. I don't think that's a smart way to do it. I think you can you know go for something that like a developer or producer that's more high probability and still get a really really good return. But yeah,

again, the smaller exploration companies that don't have 2 or 3 million ounces or, you know, 100 million ounces of silver, unless they have something like that, they're not leveraged to metals price. It's all about exploration success at that point. Yeah, I think that's that's important to make that distinction and understand what's going on there. I've got I think one more point I wanted to ask you about in terms of the gold stocks because you mentioned in your book if we're going into this

long-term secular gold bull market, it doesn't mean that gold stocks are outperforming gold the whole time. There can be fluctuations in terms of what we see there. So, I just wanted to make sure we touch on that a little bit. If you had any any thoughts. Yeah. Um, yeah, I have I have quite a few thoughts on that. So, I'll try I'll try and be as succinct as I can. Um, I talk about in the book a big issue that nobody mentions why the gold stocks well there's there's two issues why they've

really struggled. Number one, you had a secular bare market from 2011 to 2023. So, you were in a secular bare market. Valuations get worse or you know, depending on your perspective, they get uh better, but you know, they get lower. If you're trading at 10 or 11 times cash flow in a bull, you know, you can trade at seven or eightx in a bear. So that that hurt the companies which nobody mentions. The second thing is the introduction of the gold ETFs you know cuz we were talking about before the

1960s there was no way to buy gold but if you think about it it was really really hard to buy gold until the ETFs in ' 0405 and so what you know what did people do who wanted gold exposure before the ETFs? They bought the big gold stocks. So the gold stocks traded at much higher valuations in the 80s and 90s even though it was a secular bear for the entire industry because anybody who wanted gold exposure they had to buy the large gold uh gold companies. And so the introduction of gold ETFs and silver

ETFs as well in the mid200s that diluted the buying power uh into miners. it it introduced this huge competition in the form of gold and silver ETFs. So that hurt the stocks significantly and again I don't I don't you know I yeah I mean there's a few people who mentioned that here and there but it's you know rarely is that mentioned you so these are structural reasons you hear all these things like oh well you know there's political problems there's you know bad management

and it's true but these are the structural issues you you had huge changes in the ETFs which really hurt the miners and you had this secular bare market from 2011 to 2023 so we're coming out of that And it's yeah, talking about the the miners versus gold. Yeah, they tend to outperform in sweet spots like the miners will outperform gold when you're coming off like a really oversold crash type low. So after 2008 for example, you know, after the COVID low, uh those are just two examples. The

other point is usually after a gold breakout or a silver breakout, uh you will see that outperformance. Now, we did have the breakout in gold, a major breakout, of course, you know, a year ago, and it's taken some time for the miners to really outperform gold, but we are gaining some traction right now. And so, they Yeah, they will tend to outperform in like bits and spurts like I I I think they'll outperform in like various two or threeyear periods. And I think we're in one of those

periods. And the reason is again if you think about the inflationadjusted gold price and you think about where we are economically um the breakout in the gold price I should say the breakout in the inflationadjusted gold price the potential for that to really run u that's going to be really good for the miners because if you think about the price moving from 3,000 to 4,000 if that happens in the next 12 or 18 months we are not going to see a lot of cost inflation during that period because of

economic weakness. is yes of course there there will be some cost inflation but it's not there right now. So the the gold price metals prices are going up faster than costs. But what'll happen is if we're you know 12 or 18 or maybe 24 months from now maybe if metals prices keep moving up but inflation at that point can be go cost inflation can be going up faster than metals prices. And so that's when you won't get, you know, any leverage and and the the stocks will not outperform the metals. So yeah, I

mean there's no like one simple strong answer, but I would just say I think we're in a real sweet spot right now where I think over the next 12 or 18 months um is a period where you know you could see the sector the entire sector really outperform the metals prices. Uh but you know stepping back it if you're a real serious investor it's really best to build your own portfolio pick the best companies become a stock picker because this is a sector where there's huge variance in performance in a lot of

these companies so I would say build your own if you like the juniors build your own GDXJ you know if you can pick the best companies and you're a good stock picker you will outperform the sector and you can still find lots of companies that will leverage uh gain in the metals price is much better than the sector as a whole. So, you have to be a stock picker. Okay. Okay. I think that's also really good context for people to be aware of. And I want to make sure to ask you about silver as well. But before

we go there, I we should also touch on gold and price price expectations or price potential in this this long-term run that you see coming. Yeah. Yeah, I mean the long-term potential, it sounds really ridiculous, but if you look at uh you look at major peaks in the last 100 to 150 years, gold against the S&P, I mean four, 5x, 7x in 1980, but if that's not unreasonable. So like a 4x or a 5x for gold against the stock market, you know, that would be what what does that put us, you know, that puts us

close to like 25,000 or, you know, 30,000 in some cases. And if you look at uh the monetary base of the US and you look at the reserves that the US has basically the gold price went to a level in 1934 and 1980 and some periods in between where the gold price and the amount of gold or I should say the gold price was high enough where it backed 100% of the monetary base. So for that to happen again I think we're looking at 23,000 or something like that. I mean if that were to happen today. So if we're

looking out 10 12 years from now, um yeah, I mean there there's really insane potential where the gold price could go. And talking about silver again, if you look at the last 100 to 150 years, there's three or four times I think with the gold silver ratio has come down under 20, you know, to 15x or 16x. So if you think, okay, gold, you know, gold based on these numbers can go to 25 30,000, you know, that means silver is is going to go to a,000. It's it's going to go to four digits. Now, a

couple important things. It doesn't mean the price will stay there because you'll get a crash at the end. So, that's what we're looking at, you know, 10, I don't know, 10, 12 years, 15 years. It could be, you know, something around those levels. But zooming in with where we are here and now, I do think that this particular cyclical move, um I mean it it it's hard to guess at this point, but I would say, you know, we could have um depending on how fast it goes up, we could have another 2 or 3 years left in

this cyclical move. And I tend to think gold could get to 7 or 8,000, which I mean, it sounds really extreme. And and silver could go well over a 100 uh may, you know, maybe to 150 in that type of case. It sounds really extreme but after this cyclical move like we will have a a crash in the sector similar to the mid70s or 2008. So e even though um you know the the more accelerated the move the higher the prices go in the next you know 2 3 4 years that will set up for a a cyclical bare market which you know

will look like a crash because if after every bull market you know the the miners um you know they they have 65% declines like if you look at the period from 1957 to 1980 I think they had at least two 65% % declines, maybe three. I mean, it would be three if you count the one uh after the peak in 1980. So, again, we're in a real sweet spot here where there, you know, there could be an incredible bull market over the next 3, four, maybe 5 years, but I think it's going to be closer to three or four

years. So, there's going to be huge gains coming, but it will end with a crash before the next leg gets going. Or maybe not a crash, but just a severe bare market. Yeah. Okay. So, we got a kind of a twoin one there with the price potential for both gold and silver. And I do appreciate you saying what happens after all of this this price activity pans out. That's always good to remember. I wanted to talk a little bit more about silver. I know you talk in your book about it's got its precious

side and it it tends to follow gold. There's also the industrial side for silver that we have to be aware of and pay attention to. So, any any thoughts you would add there? Could that potentially weigh on on silver moving forward? Yeah, I my opinion has changed a little bit since the last time we did an interview, but generally I I still believe what I wrote in the book, which is silver is a leveraged play on gold. So the industrial side of silver really has no impact on the price right now.

It's basically all gold. But what's interesting is that I think in the last year, this may have been the first year ever for silver, like we saw big increases in investment demand in industrial demand at the same time. So that's interesting. But again, the number one, two, and three driver for silver is the gold price. It's a leverage play on gold. The industrial side really doesn't matter. You know, maybe the industrial side will help support the market better in a downturn.

Uh but I do think it's interesting. I mean, and I say that because maybe in 10 years, like there's a chance if the industrial demand keeps running and it keeps steady over the next decade and the price keeps moving up. Like you can see a repeat of the late '7s or 1980 where someone might try and corner the market just because again with where we are here and now if you have investment demand increasing and you have industrial demand increasing at the same time like that's something that we have

not seen in you recent decades or recent years with respect to silver. So industrial demand, you know, not really my expertise and forte, but when I talk to people about that and I look at some data, you know, that could that could play more of a role in uh later years of this bull market. But again, I would say here and now it it it it's all the gold price that's a driver for silver. Yeah, I think Okay, I think good to get your thoughts there and have some clarity. We've covered really a lot of ground, I

think, in terms of gold, gold stocks, silver. I don't want to keep you too long, but before I let you go, I would ask if there's any final thoughts that you would want investors to be aware of, keeping in mind that as you as you said, all of this is happening right now. Yeah, I would say uh well, first they could get a free copy of my book if they go to the daily.combook, a free PDF and Epub file where it's all there. So, get a free copy of my book. Um I would say you know one thing for investors

um they need to follow someone you know that they trust or who's giving them really good information on these companies and I would say you know the the macro and all these predictions are really interesting and you know there is at times there's some important analysis behind it which I try and use but you are going to make the most money picking the right companies. So I would say spend for investors out there, spend your time really researching the companies and learning the companies and

becoming an expert on the companies. You're not going to make money, you know, predicting macro or trying to, you know, predict tops and bottoms and sell out. Now, in my premium newsletter, I mean, I'm a buy and holder. I don't trade, but I do mention I might take a few profits when breadth indicators get really, really extreme to the upside. So, there is some science behind that. But again, stepping back, we will make the most money by picking the right companies, picking the leaders. And

that's why we should spend most of our time um researching and analyzing companies, listening to company interviews that are on your channel and other channels. That is going to be that's going to help you make way more money than trying to listen to all these macro predictions. I know they're really entertaining and you know it's important to listen to them in some cases but you know some of the best investors of all time they just focus more on the companies they you know they

they don't really focus that much yeah they might have a macro view but they're not trying to predict every little turn in the economy or the macro situation. It again focus more focus most of your time and research on picking the best companies that will suit you well. You will make the most money and keep the most money in this bull market. Okay. I think that's really good advice to end with. I definitely get caught up in all of the macro ideas and things and it's so easy to get lost in all of that, but

definitely it's it's a time for focus now. And I will add a link in the video description for the book so that people can can download it and yeah, thank you very much for for coming on to go over all of these different topics. This is really useful. Oh, my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Of course. And once again, I'm Charlotte Mloud with investednews.com and this is Jordan Roy with the Daily Bold. Thank you for watching. If you like this video, make sure you hit the like button and

subscribe to our channel. We'd also love to hear your thoughts, so leave us a comment below. [Music]