[Music] I'm Charlotte McLoud with investingnews decom and here today with me is John fenick portfolio manager and consultant at Fen Consulting thank you so much for being here great to have you hey Charlotte happy new year thanks for having me back happy New Year really excited to have you here one of my very first interviews of 2025 so of course we're going to get started talking on the year ahead and as we usually do I thought we could begin with gold so of course we're coming off of a record


setting year and I think many people are looking forward at the next 12 months wondering if we're going to see the same type of price action so let's jump right into it what are you seeing for the gold price in 2025 yeah so I mean as you know we are very methodical about how we talk about price action in the metal like gold and silver and so rather than to give an annual um Target on anything you know what I've done in the past when we interview is just talk about support and resistance levels because I think that's


really important for clients especially now that gold has broken to an alltime high right now you're getting to a point on the chart that hasn't existed before uh so you have to be more uh I don't say cautious but just more cognizant of of that and so gold for us is going to hold 2,300 an ounce that is the new floor in my view slightly lower maybe on a on a really bad day but 2300 seems to be the Line in the Sand much like when you and I interviewed last year 1900 was the Line in the Sand right and I said hey this is


very very good technical action that we held that level for five plus months and could never close below 1900 now we're seeing the same with 2300 it's been weeks and weeks 2300 plus right and so that's extremely bullish for any Gold stock you know buying because gold is is doing great but gold stocks are not and so we can get to that in a minute but just the technical setup for gold looks absolutely beautiful if you look at a 10 year 15 year 20-year chart I mean it looks absolutely great now you've got


the dynamic of trump coming in office I don't see how that's going to cause less volatility uh and gold loves uncertainty and volatility so I think we're going to have a great 2025 and if you don't believe me look at what the big banks are saying right Goldman Sachs Bank of America City they all have $3,000 goal targets for 2025 which is outstanding um so I'm not uh thinking that go will have a bad year um I just think you need to watch that 2300 level to make sure that doesn't break maybe even


2400 but if you remember after the November 5th us election Charlotte we we bounced right off of 2500 like clockwork so I think the Line in the Sand really is is somewhere between 2300 2500 and you're going to have some upside side here I just said on another show that we uh had resistance at 2629 last week and we we flipped that to support now and now you're almost at 2650 as we record this so I Think We're Off to the Races this year and um that will mean good things for people that own gold or gold


stocks which we'll get to in a second as far as silver goes you know um I just recently bought more over at 2893 an ounce last week I put that out to my my clients um we're trading at $3 as we record this on the nose if you remember $30 was Major resistance for 11 years and um we broke it in 2024 like butter very very bullish price action and silver last year ran all the way up to that 34 to 35 level and failed so I would like to see silver get back through 33 and then through 35 and then


who knows I mean you know you've got only a few other resistance levels that are meaningful Beyond 35 and they would be 38 and then 40 and then the big one is 50 of course so the setup looks really good in silver um to give you would you like a couple of names in in those areas like within gold and silver I think that would be great I think everybody always enjoys hearing about the companies that you have an eye on okay so with gold um usau US Gold had some really outstanding news in November


since we last talked they basically got their permitting uh in Wyoming in which is you know I think an underrated state in the US I think I've met a lot of constituents in Wyoming they they want this mind to be built and George B has the ability to build it because if you look at his track record he's built mines in places that are way more owner us than Wyoming um throughout South America Central America Etc so I believe in George and the team there and I think they're going to get it done they they


have a NASDAQ listing they just raised $10.2 million about a month ago so they're cashed up um they're going to have a great year Stock's trading at $5.90 right now it had hit 860 on very heavy volume on the news of um uh the the uh permitting but then pulled back after they did the financing which is normal you know in our sector to see a pullback of 10 to 20% after an announcement like that um so I like the stock right here uh we were buying a little bit more under six recently um first Nordic is an interesting one


fnm in Canada fnm CF in the states they have 3 million ounces of gold already identified um they cashed up as well in November they raised 11 a half million and then right away two weeks later in December they put out a press release saying hey we're drilling like really really good to see a company get right on it and I think you know Taj with his experience at Discovery silver where he led that that company in a lot of the good years is going to have success at first Nordic again I mean you could take


a deposit like this from 3 million ounces to 5 million ounces pretty easily in a year's time if they continue to drill uh and and hit and so good jurisdiction good leadership good share structure you know cashed up checks a lot of boxes for us um a last one in Gold um I'd say inflection re resources inflection resources is um Au cuu in Canada Au cuf in the states the reason I say that is that October three I think it was they put out news that was their last news item um they put out news that


really moved stock like they have a partnership with Anglo which is a a major top 10 gold play as you know um and Anglo is paying for most of their drilling like the majority of their drilling so I love that that they don't have to go out and do raises consistently like a lot of Juniors do um and they have good leadership and they're in a great jurisdiction in in New South Wales Australia so you know uh that's gold and copper it's not just gold but um that is something that I think could do way better than people


expect and the reason I say that is it was trending at like 11 12 cents us for weeks they put out that press release and the stock went right to 20 in a month like really really good price action and now it faded because you've got tax loss season and kind of like lack of news I would attribute the the decline to but that doesn't mean you give up on a stock right I mean it's like anything that moves from 11 to 20 and then now is trading at 12 as a value manager you say well why wouldn't it go


back there on good news right like so that's sort of what we teach our our clients in terms of you know being resilient and and and just watching for these patterns uh Charlotte because it's really important to watch for this kind of stuff and last and silver I'll just give you one because I don't want to jabber on too long here but aftermath silver um as I've talked about in your show at much lower prices AAG in Canada a agff in the states um had really positive news uh since we last uh you


know spent time on Silber as well they they got another five million from Eric Sprout and then Eric followed that up with another 10 million in October I mean he is over 20% um of the stock now which rarely happens with Eric if you look at his work he's 19.9 or 9.9 but he doesn't do a lot of 20% plus deals um and that is a really great endorsement of what Mike and Ralph have done with the company um they had very positive news in February of last year so 11 months ago uh in the manganes space


which we have put out to our followers immediately in March saying this is really going to be a diversifier for them and that was probably at like 15 17 cents us the stocks trading is at 31 now so it's doubled but keep in mind on the back of Eric Sprout's news that stock went from 30 to 50 cents us real quick so that was just last quarter right so again retraced all of that gain all of the Eric BR news you know that drove the stock up now has retraced right back to 30 and it's like this is when you buy


these kind of stocks because that news was real it it it'll you know it basically gives the company enough cash to like survive for months and months here okay really good so we've got some gold and silver names to keep an eye on as we're heading into the year and an idea of where gold and silver prices could go in 2025 just before we move on to talking about other Commodities can we take a look at the how and why gold and silver could get here I'm thinking when it comes to Gold can we take a look


at what your biggest driver for the year ahead might be biggest driver for gold is gosh there's so many to choose from um I mean the bricks meeting in October was significant to me and that they're getting closer to launching a competing currency um with the US dollar and the Euro so you know you have to keep an eye on that what are they going to back that currency with gold is going to be a part of that so I think the bricks countries which include Russia India China big names um you know are going to be buying


a lot more gold especially if they're going to launch a competing currency right like that's a good source of buying another thing is continued Federal uh excuse me Contin continued like Federal Bank buying that we've seen you know what for like heavily since February of 2022 when Russia invaded right so like you've got a lot of buying over the last three years led by China and India but I think that will continue Central Bank buying is just going to be a theme right um and then you've got the


volatility of a broad Market Charlotte that has run up since March of 2009 like this is getting long in the tooth I don't care who you are I know portfolio managers that you know I'll get behind closed doors and they're nervous right they're nervous that this is like going on 16 years now right they they know better yet they have to keep up with the Joneses right and you've got to continue to buy Nvidia Apple face um meta like all these stocks that are continuing to just go crazy because you've got to keep


up with the Joneses and that's a really dangerous game if you look at 2008 and 2009 again don't take my word for it go back and look at what portfolio managers that were the top managers then and how much they fell in a in a in a in a cycle down like it's really people always look at upside they don't look at downside enough they have to look at what we call downside capture ratio which is how does a manager perform in a terrible Market because that's important I think you know we could see not a terrible Market


Market in in 2025 but a market that definitely will give some back because we've had such a euphoric run here for the last few years okay yeah I know it's difficult to choose just one or two top drivers for goal because everything is speeding in and I will I'll bring up the FED as well just because we usually spend a little bit of time going over what's happening with the Fed so we got our three rate Cuts in 2024 and lots of speculation about what we will see in 2025 we've got the FED shifting toward


the labor market in terms of their concentration so what are you expecting from the FED in the year ahead I'm expecting drama um because poell literally the day after the US election was asked I think three times in the press conference following his initial comments hey uh is Trump gonna you know fire you essentially and and he was vehemently saying you know it's unconstitutional and that will not happen Okay he doubled down in December and said basically the same thing like Trump has no control


over this uh we'll see right like people said this about the Supreme Court as well you know a while you years ago that Trump wouldn't be successful there but he was in terms of getting a lot of people on board that were supporters of his way of thinking um let's say it's not Jerome Powell let's just say it's other voting members of the FED I think that Trump will have an impact there and um and that will be positive for gold and silver in that Trump's background is in


real estate right do you want lower rates or higher rates as a real estate mobile obviously lower rates so I don't know how we get there because as we sit here right now Charlotte we're looking at a 50 basis point year like you just pointed out we had three Cuts last year that totaled 100 basis points the the prognosis as of mid December from the fed's mouth is hey two cuts this year I don't believe it I think we get more than two cuts and you know that's going to be bullish for gold silver real


estate um and know parts of real estate I I should say because real estate has really run up like the broad market so we're not Uber bullish on real estate I'm just saying that you know lower rates would obviously help a sector like that yeah I think maybe drama is the only Surefire prediction that somebody could make for 2025 definitely seems like that's what we're goingon to get I have one small other question on this topic just because it's a little bit timely we've got the next jobs data


coming up on Friday anything that you're keeping an eye on there yeah great Point non-farm pay is that is what we call that in the US and non-farm payrolls has been pretty disappointing I think now for months quietly it was interesting to me that that terrible re which was under 20,000 new jobs created uh came out right before the US election right like that did not help Kamala Harris at all um and and I think Trump is going to have a struggle with job growth you know as he gets into office as well I mean like I I


don't see how we can continue at this pace of job growth in the US and I think that also bodess well for Commodities because Trump isn't um whether whether you like him or not it he is not uh anti- oil anti- mining like he he really wants to create jobs right and he'll do it any way he can and I think that bodess well for Commodities under his leadership so um I I you know I'll just leave it there but I think I think that this year is going to shape up to be a really really good year for Commodities


in general um and if Trump can pull off the the big you know what if and and get Putin to come to the table like that's going to be a game changer for a lot of these Commodities that have been underwater like nickel Platinum padium Etc yeah I think next time we talk probably in a couple of months is what we're looking at then we'll have a much better idea of what's going on with Trump and and that should be quite interesting okay so moving on to other topics let's talk about copper so before we turn the


camera on you were telling me that your followers have a lot of questions about what's going on with copper we had over the last couple of years these loftier predictions from some large firms about where copper is going to be going and ultimately that hasn't really quite planned out as they said that it would so you tell me what's happening with copper right now sure so uh in 2023 we had a lot of the big institutions like the Morgans and Goldman say you know this was going to be a great year it wasn't they kind of I


wouldn't say double down last year but they said the same thing and um to be fair one of their predictions is the end of this year where they were calling for 15,000 a metric ton but we're between 8,000 and 9,000 a metric ton right now I don't have the number in front of me but it's a long way from 15,000 right so if we were to see a move like that over 50% in the copper price then copper stocks are going to respond very very well I just want to see it before you know I'm investing a ton in in some of these


copper juniors in particular because many of them need cash and are not doing well right and so like that's what I'm getting as questions from clients like what do I do with these Holdings I kind of bought these stocks with the understanding that you know copper was going to do better and now it isn't so yeah you have to watch the copper price I mean last year was a very volatile year that you could have traded you know with where copper ran from four back to all the way to $5 and then back to four


it's trading at like 418 as we record this so you know it's it's one of those things that if you get to $5 plus copper for sure I mean some of these stocks are going to fly um one one that we have been like interested in here recently is Quest Corp which is QQQ in Canada um the reason is they have a decent Siz land package but one of the things that we also look for is good jurisdiction as you know which is Canada in this case really really that we're fine with that we have a lot of Canadian


Holdings um and and secondly share structure share structure in this case is outstanding it's 15 million shares outstanding so like wow you know like 15 million shares is nothing so if if a company like that raises money and then drills and hits that's when the stock can really really respond uh we were lucky enough last year uh to own Guardian metal resources GMT LF and that was the same situation right we got into the stock early had a really tight share structure they were supported and


continue to be supported by a billionaire and a few mutual funds and so there's not a lot of ownership in the public right and then they are hitting in Nevada and putting out good press releases and the stock went from I think 15 or 16 cents us up to 52 cents so you can get exponential growth in some of these stocks if you look at the share structure as one of the components for your criteria and Quest Corp really has a tight share structure there so we're interested in that but um most of the


copper stuff that we've been buying um just hasn't worked that well like over the last year or two and so um I'm kind of in the wait and see mode to see how China kind of works out under a trump regime because if China struggles copper will struggle a little bit more um but there are still some stocks like I just mentioned like Quest Corp or even inflection that we just talked about that are just so cheap that you know it's it's worth taking a chance at these levels yeah I was going to ask you when


it comes to the outlook for copper is it most tied to China or are there other factors you're watching when it comes to figuring out how it may perform in in 2025 great question I mean 95% of the people always say it's trying to all day long but I I think it's other factors because of the globalization that we're seeing um and the electrification needs uh all all include use of copper right so I think population growth electrification these are themes that will drive copper higher no matter what


um and that just my point is I don't know when that's going to be it probably isn't going to be this quarter so then you know as an investor you have to say to yourself how much time do I have here right um so if it's one to twoe play I think you make money in a lot of things copper related but if you're looking for the next three to six months you know gold might be a better place to emphasize because I do believe like the big banks that gold goes from you know 2645 here to to 3,000 at some point this


year okay okay really important considerations to keep in mind of course and so we've been through gold silver copper and we also want to take a look at some of those special situations type of companies that you're following this is always really interesting to me so what do you have on your radar this year sure so we haven't posted our performance on fenic consulting.com just yet but we had a really good year in 2024 uh we beat GDX which is the biggest you know ETF out there 15 billion plus


by over 15% last year so we attribute that growth and that performance to names like this that don't have analyst cover and kind of fly under the radar you know because as I just pointed out with with Guardian metal GM tlf like that is a 3% position for us so when you buy a stock you know we we started it in the teens but we bought heavily in the 20s so the Stock's at 38 cents now we've made almost you know I don't know 80 to 100% on that stock position um that's going to add a lot of alpha to your P


overall portfolio right so um one that we like that's similar to Guardian right now is called demesne resources and that's DME in Canada DMF in the states um demesne is probably considering a name change to better reflect the fact that they are a US tungsten play as well um but they're in Idaho another great jurisdiction I think it's ranked like ninth globally uh Nevada is ranked number one um so again like a past producing project that has Molly and tungsten um super cheap uh very tight share structure like I think


25 million shares all told maybe post their their recent financing so you know again just if tungsten does well this year which I think it will um there are very very few us sources or North American sources that you can point to that are going to produce any tungsten down the road at all um China and Russia have a stronghold on this Market they literally produce 91% of all tungsten in 2024 so um uh and another reason to consider dzn is because of fir weed's recent success right if you look at


Fireweed is FW EDF they came out with news December 16th I think it was and basically said you know we're getting $35 million in a grant from the government like great news release it's only up about 78% since that news but that bodess extremely well for a guardian medal or a demesne who are literally just smaller players in that same sub sector because I think the the Department of Defense and other IND you know other government agencies are going to have to give grants like they did to


fire weed to companies like this I mean we are Canada and the US are so far behind in the race against China that you know these governments have to step up and hopefully now that we're seeing regime changes in both Canada and you know the US we get some more love in this area um another special situation would be oil and gas for me gas is super depressed as you know um a lot of that has become uh as a result of the Russian conflict um oil looks like poised to have a good couple of years in my


opinion so we're looking for cheap oil and gas stocks that again don't have analyst coverage fly under the radar I think I may have mentioned this one other time on your show it's called Anor resources uh a an KF in States a andk in Canada um you know stocks trading at just over 6 cents us um it ran up to 10 cents us last year I think it could retrace that because when you look at their um October news they put out a little graphic showing their net revenue growth in oil and gas over the last


eight months and it's growing month over month so not to say that that Trend will continue forever like that but if you're clipping you know even like 100,000 net Revenue as a six cent stock with like no debt issues right I mean it's it's just there's going to be a reating in that stock in our opinion right and and so like that's the kind of stuff that we look for is uh interesting part of the world in oil and gas but underfed stock and you know these are the the kind of


things that we do at F Consulting to really pick up the phone talk to CEOs uh of companies like Anor that can kind of you know tell us say look you know we did didn't have a bang up year last year but this year we're really well positioned and here's why okay I always find the special situations very interesting so thank you for that and I think that takes us almost to the end but before I let you go usually I ask if you have any final words this year a little bit of a different spin any best


advice for investors as we head into the new year well I'll say two things one is self-serving uh full disclosure that I think people need to work with professionals like myself and and and I'm saying this now because you should look at the price action in mining from genan 1 to November 4th last year right you had a pretty darn good year if the end if the year ended November 4th Trump gets selected November 5th and things Chang it wasn't just because of trump it was because Trump is aligned with real


estate Bitcoin different things that are now doing well in a Trump World right so it was a distraction away from our sector and into other sectors right it wasn't uh selling money because it's bad it's it's like recognizing that and having some type of Coach if you will in in in the in the form of myself to tell you hey this is when you buy this isn't when you sell like I mean this is November and December we had huge net buying weeks um and I was a net seller in September and October leading up to


the election in fact I mentioned that on your show I was like look I I don't know what's going to happen so I I want to make sure that I have some cash on hand and we were able to deploy that cash heavily partially in November but heavily in December when people were asleep with the wheel and I think a lot of those trades are going to work for us um so that's number one number two is work with a financial advisor you know um I think it's critically important that if you have a 401k a 403b that's


where the bulk of your money is right like you need to talk to a professional to say what do you recommend in 2025 don't tell me what we did in the past tell me what is going to happen going forward and how should I reposition because I think you really need to rejigger some things this year this is not going to be a set it in for get it kind of year okay I think those are really good points to wrap up on so thank you for coming on to talk about what's ahead and looking forward to the next one for


sure thanks a lot Charlotte of course and once again I'm Charlotte McLoud news.com and this is John fenick with Fen Consulting thank you for watching if you like this video make sure you hit the like button and subscribe to our Channel we'd also love to hear your thoughts so leave us a comment below [Music]