gold news

 [Music] I'm Charlotte mlau with investing news.com and here today with me is Randy Smallwood president and CEO of Wheat and precious metals thank you so much for being here great to have you Charlotte always a pleasure thank you yes really good to have you back again there's lots to go over and really what a perfect time to have you on with gold right at that 3,000 level this morning so I thought maybe we start with that because it's probably top of mind for every everyone what key gold price drivers are

you watching right now well we're still seeing strong central bank demand and you know I really think that you know people have to you know understand what what is driving that and it's a it's bit of nervousness about the US dollar and how strong it is relative to other currencies and the fundamentals just don't add up and so what we've seen for quite a while now for for several years now central banks uh just transferring out from US dollars to gold and that's the driving force behind this but what I

I will say is that we are starting to see uh a a much stronger appetite in the institutional and the retail space in in the west uh just number of conferences I've had over the last couple of weeks uh you know we're averaging 30 to 40% new faces new companies new new uh new fund managers that are coming in wanting to learn about gold and wanting to learn about precious metals and and as a as a good place to invest wanting to learn about Wheaten and so that's probably one of the highest ratios we've ever had

with respect to that news space so so you know I I do see increased demand coming from from as I would say Western institutional and Retail investors yeah that was one of the points that I wanted to ask you about actually because when the gold price is moving like this I think the first place that people often go to the royalty and streaming companies so anything more you can say about about I guess the education efforts that you are maybe having to make in that regard and the people that you're talking to yeah it's the the

business model um you know and the strong Advantage obviously as the creator of the streaming business model we prefer streams we think they do a better job of delivering value to all the stakeholders including the operators and uh and of course our shareholders the the benefits from an investing perspective especially for generalists or new investors into the precious metal space is the is the risk mitigation that we have within our business model compared to a traditional mining investment our costs are fixed our

Capital costs are fixed our our operating costs are defined in the contract and fixed and so you know that confidence allows us to avoid inflationary pressures that that we see so many other companies so many other operators having to deal with having to manage having to work their way through we don't have that exposure so truly when we see gold moving up in value when we see silver moving up in value we deliver that benefit um to our shareholders and and again the huge advantage of streaming over royalties is

that we deliver it with a levered exposure in the sense that we do make a production payment on a peral basis as that metal is delivered to us so that gives us increased performance relative to the price of gold or the price of silver and so the model is just so strong from a from a risk mitigation perspective it's an excellent way for people that are new to the space to step into the space and and as I said dip their toes in and and I think you know a company like weaton should be a foundation investment for everyone and

and then and then they should probably have some higher risk higher levered uh higher exposed uh Investments over and above that but Wheaten should be the foundation investment that's we really try and shape ourselves that way yeah I think you do a really good job of explaining how the model really insulates the company from a lot of the risks that mining companies face I do want to talk a little bit about those risks because I know that you are out there talking to companies and there's a

lot of turmoil going on right now that can impact company costs Supply chains what are the key things that these companies in the mining space are dealing with right now well you know I I think it really comes down to the fact that high higher commodity prices tend to there's there's always going to be pressure on costs and so so it's tough for mining companies to manage those costs and then you know what happens is when the price of gold goes up uh low-grade material that might not have been economic in times past all

of a sudden does become economic now the challenge is is that as soon as you start processing lower grade material your costs will go up on a per oun basis it's just it's a you know simple math and so you know it's it the the challenge in the mining space is trying to find that balance trying to recognizing that now you've got a lot of of lower grade material that that may be profitable to process but it doesn't generate as much profit and because you're limited in terms of throughput

capacity anything that's lower grade going through will will push up the cost and and so it it you know the challenge again on the operating side is trying to find that balance um you know maintaining strong profitability but but you don't want to you also don't want to go through uh you don't want to wait any of the resource um you know mins are getting tougher and tougher to find we need as a responsible industry we need to maximize the benefit that we deliver out of our operations uh you know

maximizing that kind of productivity is is is part of how we minimize a broader impact in the industry and so it's something that the industry has to focus on and finding that balance is is is a real challenge okay yeah really really good to go over that as well and going back to what's going on with the gold price right now I know that you've been bullish on gold many people have been bullish on Gold for a long time but it does seem to have moved faster than many people anticipated so curious to know

your thoughts on whether gold needs to take a little bit of a breather right now what do you think um well you know $33,000 is just a number it truly is just a number but it it there's no doubt that it does carry some significance uh um you know and and so you know what I what I would expect to see is that is is you know we have been sort of bouncing off of $3,000 staying in the $2,900 range you know we're that as of right now we're a little bit below 3,000 again but we did break through it earlier

earlier this morning and so you know I do think it's going to build up a firmer platform but you know what what we've seen is is gold over the last couple years has just been building up a more and more solid base uh and and the fundamentals that are driving it are are ones that aren't going away um you know increasing debt levels uh uh concerns you know i' I've I've long described gold as a comfort medal it's it's where people go to in times of distress times of challenge times of trade Wars and

geopolitical wars and conflicts uh outright Wars um gold is always going to have an appeal in in those kind of environments and we still see quite a bit of that around the world if not even more uh you know especially on the trade War side the de globalization push that we're seeing around the world bodess W for gold gold is one commodity that is is immensely respected in every culture around the world and and and that value is true and recognized and and so you know again I I just don't see I don't

see any fundamentals that show to weakness in Gold I all I see is continued strength and I think if you look at some of the forecasts that we're now seeing under the major Banks they're all continuing to push for you know or you know their forecasting is is higher higher gold prices and so so uh you know that's it's tough not to be excited it is it is I know nobody likes to get too excited in case we jinx it but I I agree on that note and it is I like the idea of gold as a comfort metal instead of

you know sometimes you hear about it more as a crisis metal I like your phrasing okay so we have we have gold looking pretty good pretty solid and I do want to bring up what's going on with the gold stocks because of course we know that some gold compan compies have seen good share price moves but investors I know we get a lot of questions about this are still waiting for maybe that more broad-based move in the Gold stock so any thoughts on on what we're seeing there and what might be coming well you know we have to

deliver um you know it's uh we we've the mining industry as a whole um has had some challenges in the past in terms of delivering on its promises and so so I think what what really needs to happen and and you'll see that just you know as as as you know we just least our year end results and record cash flows um record record grins like I mean all the way across the board we need to deliver this back to the to the investors and that's what's going to wake them up the the you know and bring back even even

more investors we are starting to see some strength definitely for the higher quality companies the larger ones but not even larger the higher quality ones the ones that operate at higher margins and have a consistent track record at delivering value we are starting to see a pick up in value we've we've been hitting record share price highs now for several months um at weaton and you know continued strength our results are supporting that we had an incredible fourth quarter and so so you know it's a

it's a matter of delivering on our promises and and making sure that we do that when we see gold prices shoot up like that there should be strong cash flows and and we are seeing that from even other companies in the space and so just deliver on our promises yeah I think I've been hearing that I think from a number of people so we've got to see the results and then the the moves will follow and but definitely get into Wheaton's latest results before we go there though I want to ask you at least briefly about what's

going on with silver so we've got gold at all-time highs silver silver is moving but again not as much as investors might hope and when we talked last time you're mentioning we need to probably see some Western retail interest in silver before we see it really move so any updated thoughts you would share yeah I would say we we still haven't seen a lot of that yet um but the fundamentals are are strong if not even stronger you know I I I will say that we've had more questions about our

silver production and we do produce you know over 30% of our Revenue comes from Silver so we're actually one of the biggest silver plays in the space and by far one of the most profitable silver plays in the place because our cost per ounce is down around $44.50 an ounce and so uh looks pretty attractive with today's spot prices and so um the interest level we've been seeing a lot more questions about our silver production and and about silver optionality in terms of what we have in

in new projects coming on stream and with with the growth profile we've got it's such a strong aspect of it so so we are starting to see I think a bit more interest in silver the fundamentals are sure there uh if if you want to talk about a critical mineral the more silver that is consumed the the better we are on society you know in society in terms of efficiencies productivities um you know antibacterial Health applications all sorts of the silver just has so many applications and it's a it's it's a it's an affordable

precious metal so so uh you know I just think Silver's time has yet to come um I I I tend to believe I mean of Silver's got a track record of outperforming gold it's just um it's it's it's definitely got a higher beta a higher volatility and it just tends to lag gold and so you know we will see that time um there's definitely an a pickup in interest since the last time you and I talked just just by virtue of the number of of our investors both existing and future that

have been asking about our silver production and so uh you know we we remain hopeful and uh and you know making sure that we have good quality assets that deliver that silver to us very interesting I do I always love to hear what kinds of questions you're getting from your investors so that that's a pretty good Bell weather I think for what's going on with silver so let's move over to talking about the company's latest results so you mentioned some of the financial highlights if there's anything else you

would pull out we can talk about that and also we have guidance for 2025 but what really stood out for me as interesting was that longer term guidance to 2029 where you're looking for I think a 40% increase in production so would be great to go over that and where that's going to be coming from well it's uh yeah the growth profile is probably one of the strongest in the entire precious metal space we're not talking streaming and royalties we're talking even amongst the mining

companies and especially from such a diversified portfolio of assets delivering this growth slobo of course uh you know our fourth quarter record gold production from slobo more gold than we've ever seen from from slobo and having it as a flagship mine in our company has really proven to be uh uh you know giving us a a treasure chest in terms of uh gold production and so and the asset just continues to improve uh and so you know our our our 2024 production was actually very strong I I would say that um you know 2025

production we've got a bit of growth we've got some uh you know on a guidance basis it's about a 10% bump um most of that is going to come from we've got four new mines that'll be delivering metal To Us by the end of this year they're very close in fact Artemis at Blackwater is already poured their first gold and silver and uh and we've got a number of assets that are very close to that so and then we've got altogether nine new mines that'll be delivering production by 2029 feeding into our

portfolio so so really exciting times a lot of the Investments that we've made over the last um you know five six years in development projects is really starting to pay off and and you know what what what I find particularly exciting about the growth is that you know it's 40% by 2029 but we've got growth beyond that our average production by 2030 between 2030 and 2034 is 950,000 gold equipment ounces that's well over 50 60% uh growth over the next six seven years that we're seeing I

think right now we we modeled 2031 as sort of being a peak year in there we actually touch over a million gold equivalent ounces this is a space that no streaming and royalty company has ever been we are truly sort of separating ourselves from the rest of the peer group in terms of our capacity our our volumes our margins our cash flows um and and I can't think of a better time to have this growth than in a rising gold market and a rising precious metals Market you know we do see also in our silver and so you know

it's incredibly exciting times and I really think that this this quarter end this year end is going to be followed by again record record record hopefully for what I would see next five or six years uh we're we're well on track and and as I said a bunch of that growth is coming from organic assets stuff that's already producing in terms of organic growth but we've got a a whole slew of new minds coming in to also broaden that portfolio you'll broaden the the uh you know add

to the diversity of of the entire mix feeding into this production but uh very exciting times yeah I always appreciate that that much longer term Outlook I think that helps people really grasp what's going on and again going back to our previous conversation you had mentioned you were active on the deal front and at the time you couldn't quite say what was going on but there's been a couple of deals since then with I believe Montage gold and Allied gold so wanted to ask you about those ones

briefly and are you still on the hunt looking to make deals yeah I mean you know our biggest challenges we have such strong cash flows uh my preference and and I think what what shareholders invest into US is to look for new projects to put that money back to work well you know I'm not really a strong believer in cash I'd much rather have it related to Gold ounces in the ground that are that are coming into production over the next while and so we're constantly on the shape for that 2024

was an incredibly specifically the quarter we closed two transactions uh you know Montage with the K project in kotoa and Allied gold with the kuk project in Ethiopia both a strong high margin assets uh the K projects really exciting uh mainly because such a strong team behind well actually both of those assets have very strong teams uh behind them but but con was one where we supplied the bulk of the project financing and the company doesn't have any any project debt to get this mine built and up and running it's coming

from from ourselves and and zon one of the other Equity holders in Montage uh is also supplying a bit of of the capital and so you know it's a unique uh and and to in my eyes a very exciting path forward for development companies where where you can work with a streaming company like Wheaten to actually fund these projects right through the production without having to deal with the Banks without having to deal with the owners and and when you're a single asset development company debt is incredibly expensive and

Incredibly uh penalty rich in terms of how how how much more expensive it can get if you're a little bit late streaming companies Wheaten we have a long history of of of being flexible of having that flexibility to help our partners be successful and uh you know I would highlight the example where we just uh earlier this quarter modified our stream to add a bit more Capital to Artemis at the Blackwater project to to take take the pressure off as they're building that mine and bringing blackwat

into full production um we are focused on helping our partners be successful much more more than any of the banks or the uh or the heavy private Equity groups that come down with the debt side so so montage is in a great position of having a very supportive partner fund that construction going forward and I the interest level that we've seen from other single asset developers is very high so I I predict more opportunities like that in enan future yeah I think it's really important to highlight your

role in financing in an industry where we're always hearing about how how difficult it is for these companies to get money so thanks for going into that one before I let you go I want to check in on the company's future of mining challenge so last time we had talk this was just being launched and now we have a winner so I wondered if there are any highlights you want to share from that process or or about the winner of the competition well rethink Milling uh was the uh initial winner for us uh we had a

lot of good candidates and so congratulations to everyone I mean just we have to select one winner in the end it was a tough choice we had narrowed it down to five it was a tough choice amongst the final five but wethink Milling is kind of uh this this concept that they've gotten they've got a couple of different technologies that are applying that dramatically improve uh the the productivity and and reduce the costs of of communition of of Milling material and and breaking it down into

the dust so you can get access to the minerals and pull it out and if you can drop those costs by 30 to 40% which is some of what the early test work has shown an incredible benefit to the mining industry as a whole um and and it just a game allows us to produce more with less footprint which is should be an overlying objective on all of our decisions and so you know we think Milling um for us to be able to help them move this forward we've got a lot of Partners but it's not even restricted

to Partners we want to help them move forward and and try and bring this uh this technology to fruition and help you know improve the overall mining industry so very happy with the uh the whole event uh it's an annual event stay tuned tuned we're not far off of announcing what the 2026 award's going to be focused on so very uh very pleased with the results here okay very good that was going to be my question is if it's going to be repeated so we'll stay tuned for the next one that's great to hear I will

I'll let you go for now unless you had any final thoughts that you would leave investors with we've got a very golden future in front of us right now and so many so many aspects the growth that we have combined with the precious metal price trends commodity price trends uh has setting up Wheaten to go to a space that no company of our uh our like has ever been in so so it's a it's a incredibly exciting times perfect note to end on a golden future thank you so much for coming on to talk about what's

going on in the market and the company thank you always a pleasure of course and once again I'm Charlotte McLoud with investing news.com and this is Randy Smallwood with Wheaten precious metals thank you for watching if you like this video make sure you hit the like button and subscribe to our Channel we'd also love to hear your thoughts so leave us a comment below [Music]