gold news

 [Music] I'm Charlo McLoud with investing news.com and here today with me is Brian Lenny founder of junior stock reveal thank you so much for being here good to have you uh thank you for having me so it's been it's been a while and I wondered if maybe you can start by sharing some some wins that you've had over the last 12 months yeah the last 12 months have actually been fantastic especially in sort of a Down Market um a couple of the big ones G mining you know this story from a developer into a full

out producer and now with their acquisition of uh the oal West deposit they're going to be moved right up into the upper ranks of that that mid-tier producer that was about a 300% win for myself and for my readers uh next to them G or Montage gold was another huge win the lendin being the big backer they they come out they they were already shareholders but they made it more public um that they were taking an interesting p and again that was around a 300% return and so those really led the portfolio uh average weighted return

over 150% for the year and again in a in a sideways Market it was was excellent so we're looking pretty good going into 2025 yeah very very good that's nice to hear and just on the note of G mining I believe I don't have it in front of me right now but I believe we had a viewer right in asking is this going to be a takeover Target and and which company might come at though any any thoughts on that oh I you know honestly it's quite interesting so one of the big things about okal West is that the proximity to

G or G2 which is gy goldfields 2.0 um their other I believe is still called oo 2 these two deposits the proximity uh for permitting and just for efficiency a lot of people believe that these two deposits should be brought together the interesting thing is that angle gold has a position in G2 and obviously being the senior mining company out of the the bond with a a multi-billion dollar mky cap would look like the obvious consolidator of the area they're also pretty busy though with silicon uh one

of the biggest stories probably in the mining industry in the last 20 years do they have the bandwidth necessarily to to consolidate that area I'm not sure you know with with G mining's ability to execute on the construction front and with that Talent being not uh ubiquitous thing throughout the world I could see I could see that g mining continues to consolidate and then at a later date when things sort of calm down with silic silicon and other aspects of the thing angle comes in and probably consolidates

that or any one of these Majors because you're talking about now probably three assets if it was in G mining that are you know highly desirable in this sort of environment oh that is very interesting thanks for going into all of those those specifics so just because we're talking about some m&a here any broader thoughts on m&a in the mining industry right right now trends that you're seeing uh I think m&a could get really hot you know one of the things is they we continuously senior Minds continuously

burned the their existing treasuries in terms of ounces in the ground and while we've seen some deals especially on the top end for efficiencies we haven't necessarily seen the development side we've sort of seen the the big guy and the big guy merge to become something bigger in sort of sideways or down markets now the gold price is up almost $3,000 an ounce margins are staying strong cash flows and cash treasuries are so big I think 2025 could be the year where you start to see the

development side stuff that maybe not isn't in production yet or maybe on the customer production start to get Acquired and that stuff sort of has a Cascade effect where you know maybe there's multiple companies that are looking at something one comes in and does it and then you see a Cascade to the rest of the sector maybe location wise maybe not but I think precious metals is going to be that leader in terms of m&a potential and uh at least the way I I position my portfolio it's

as such oh yes and before we go any further I did want to ask about your portfolio so are I guess broadly we can talk about what you're focusing on but you know are you fully allocated right now or do you have cash to I do have a little bit of cash uh like I said we did have some wins last year and what I actually did considering the strength of the gold price I've left the concentration of the portfolio focused on precious metals um but I've also redeployed that into some of the positions I think have Catalyst this

year to really make themselves stand out one of the one of the things that I'm looking at in particular is X factors sort of things that aren't run-of-the-mill or binary decisions like a drill result uh Catalyst that the market doesn't necessarily give any value to now but if it comes to fruition could really separate a company could I give you an example please please so Orion resources has uh has a bunch of projects in land um the one that's most important I think to the story right now

that maybe isn't recognized by everybody is their JV with B2 gold for on hel me is coincident with rer resource icory project which just had a PFS come out it was actually at this time last year I said in my presentation you should be looking at a Ryan resources I think there's going to be a deal given ic's uh proximity to the boundary with helmy a deal needs to be made to make sure that the icory deposit which is world class but if they're going to mine it you need cons idation because they're so close to

that property boundary a week after rer does a deal with B2 gold Orion share price sores and we're sitting at about double but I would say you still have a lot of upside from here if a deal is done and in fact that PFS that was done on icory I think it's proof in the pudding that I was correct on a deal having to be made for Helen's ground and I think that this year for somebody who's holding or IR shares you have the opportunity to maybe double again if a deal is is consummated and I think

there's a high probability that happens really interesting and well congrats on that call it's always exciting you see something like that goes through so maybe we talk a little bit more broadly about what is happening with the gold stocks right now because clearly clearly you've had some wins in your portfolio but a lot of people are looking at the Gold stocks and they're wondering okay like when are those across the board gains going to come and you had told us last year at this time this is the most

glaring opportunity for a bull market so what what's happening with the gold stocks what's your take it's a great question it's one that I I'm not sure I can fully answer what I would say is if you look at the reasons why the gold price is going up and you see who's buying that gold and where the gold is being allocated I think you'll come to the conclusion that it isn't your regular retail gold investor that's buying gold really it's the central banks it's these entities that don't

necessarily buy equities because they think the gold price is going to go up or because that they need to keep it they're buying gold as a hedge probably against stuff like the US sanctions like the transition from a western-based or US based World economy into whatever is coming next and that's the reason why the gold price is going up because of those fundamentals the equities are still languishing I think because that General retail investor isn't back they're distracted by crypto

probably distracted by Tech the broader Market which has been relatively strong over the last year and so I do think that changes over time I'm not sure what the catalyst is to necessarily bring them on Mass but again if if you are able to pick the right companies um I think you can still really make money and if there is going to be a bull market I would say it's going to be in Precious Metals in particular the gold side of things um we're just on that cusp and I don't necessarily know again

what's going to bring it bring them back yeah yeah you preempted my my question because that's always the followup but that's okay that's all right um for for the Gold stock last year you were liking the prospect gener generators for Gold stock EXP do you still like them has has your strategy or what you like changed given the market that we're in no and I think even more so I'm more convinced that that is the best way especially for General retail to play this Market um I

think expiration is is so important because it doesn't depend on the market cycle for you to get returns typically if you're going to buy ounces in the ground you almost need the metal price to move up really to get intention unless you have some sort of X Factor you we talked about or Ryan or something like that with Prospect generation you're giving up upside no doubt they're giving up 70 80% of the project but you're using that senior mining company's money and the best thing of

all is you're protecting your downside risk with the other the potential being that you actually make a discovery and the longer I've been in this business you want as most kicks as at the can that you can and when it comes to expiration and Discovery will pay you no matter where you are in the market cycle which is incredibly important especially for myself included a person you can't predict where the market Market is headed at any given time now you have the opportunity to protect your downside

risk but also have the potential to get upside with a new discovery in a prospect generation company but you have to be picky there's there's a way I think to pick those and uh I think I've done a pretty good job so far yeah yeah do you do you car to sh any tips on how to choose those that particular type of company I think you definitely want to start with the people um people that have had past successes I think are are definitely at the top of the list um those past successes especially with

certain types of companies I'll use an example because it's it's probably the prime one canine minerals they have an existing Discovery in Renault they that's a JV with sumomo they've been able to convert that into a 4% NSR on Fret to me that 4% NSR on foret depending on what that resource is I think it's multi-billion ounce but I think that justifies their market cap as it is so you get 30 million in cash you get $36 million in expiration spend in 2025 for free and to be that is like the the premier

type of way to invest in the market is buy things that they're selling for less than they're worth and so if you can find expiration companies that are run by good teams have a value proposition that's something in line there's more than just corland but I think that's the prime example to sort of look at it say hey where else can I find that and there there definitely is other examples of it okay okay all right so we talked a lot about gold and gold stocks and I I have some questions for you on copper as well

although I know you said you've shifted your portfolio more in the precious model's Direction so we'll see how this goes you you'd mentioned for copper last year positive long-term Supply demand fundamentals but possibility of recession that would be negative and you still have these recession concerns on the table we've also got the tariffs we've got other us activities so thoughts on copper right now is just an area you like I do and honestly I think I think there's there's a couple

different points precious Bal is definitely where the focus is and the obvious differential for an vet to invest in I think copper is the next most obvious one it doesn't mean it's going to happen tomorrow uh but I think if you look at where the world is headed electrification um the quality of projects out there like the the difference between precious metals copper and basically everything else is the quality of the management teams and the quality of the projects that are focused on those medals those two are at

the top everything else you have to be very very careful well you always have to be careful but you have to be even more careful with the smaller markets because there just aren't the the same amount of good teams and there aren't the same amount of good projects out there with copper you have a lot of choice depending on what you an investor want to attempt to invest in expiration like I said you can win no matter where you are in the cycle but you're taking a risk for me it's it's almost to like

what I said earlier I want to look for a company that's looking for copper but has some sort of X Factor that separates them from somebody else and if you can find that little Nuance that the market isn't giving any value to I think you're that much further ahead but it it takes time and due diligence for you to to frame that look at the Catalyst and see what the Market's missing yeah X Factor I like that okay and I had mentioned the terrorists right and that's really just the tip of the iceberg and all of this

Trump related uncertainty how are you approaching all of that volatility because I know you like to hone in on the company and kind of kind of ignore these external factors so what are what are you thinking you hit it it's noise and I think you know the longer I've lived you know I'm I'm over 40 now I I have quite a bit of experience just in life and that's what it is it's noise politicians going back and forth and I think more than ever um you have somebody in the states Trump who

seemingly is fueled by that sort of drama by you know pushing around people and that sort of hiso and I think if you just take it for what it is you should be fine with it you you take it move on focus on the stuff that matters and that's really at the company level the management teams are they sticking to timelines budgets um how does the market perceive them focus on the stuff that actually really matters with the junior sector and this political stuff it's going to sort it itself out and I really

don't think the tariffs are that big of news in terms of what I see right now uh in terms of their effect on the sector if anything if they happen it might even be better um in terms of how it constricts Supply and for different jurisdictions and what it might do for for the future of the copper price the gold price with a more chaotic uh environment okay okay and on the note of management I know you've you've mentioned a couple of companies that you like do you have any favorite management

teams right now oh 100% I I would start with the one of the companies I I mentioned canland minerals Zack fled and his team have done such an amazing job uh assembling that that team and assembling their pro project package that they have that's why they attract $36 million in spending in a year you just you can't find that sort of scenario in very many Juniors um other guys to look at again I'll go back Ryan resources mat toika Dave lotan again you're talking about the the top of the

top of people in this sector um some newer guys uh y Webster with thesis gold or Chad Peters with Ridgeline again those are those are people I've invested in and I think exemplify all those attributes that would be companies to look for for success in 2025 okay okay and in terms of of following good management teams finding them I often find that when a management team or a person has been successful they go on to do something else and maybe it begins as a private company so for investors like we just I just had a

conversation with Chris Taylor from Great Bear and he's doing this new company that it's private and people comment and be like okay well maybe tell me when I can get in so any any tips on how people can address that situation private companies has probably been the biggest disaster in my investing career unfortunately but it's you have to realize this and you really have to trust management I think Chris Taylor if you're going to invest in a private company that's a guy you can probably

trust to run the company properly and if he says he's going to go public within a certain timeline he probably will and so I give him the benefit of the doubt a lot of the other deals if you're looking as at this as an in you have to look at timelines can you trust the management team from that perspective can you go without that money coming to Market and giving you an outlet to sell it um for two years three years four years the the problem becomes is on the private sector they don't have

any motivation necessarily to be upfront with you about financials where they are with drilling where they are with some sort of development and that can be the disconnect and for me in my exp experience unfortunately the timelines can be astronomical on one of my deals that I invested in a private company I'm up to 5 years and this was supposed to be a year and a half so quite honestly I think for most especially retail investors that maybe don't have big pocketbooks it's probably not an Avenue

they want to go down um and the other side to it is you you look the companies we discussed and what's out there there's so much opportunity in publicly listed companies that I would say although it looks kind of sexy I would I would put the private companies to the side and you let those guys that have the big pocket books and the probably longer timelines focus on that sort of thing yeah yeah and as you said many times they will start that way and then they go public and I think there's also

questions that people have of like okay well like when do I get in once it is public do I try to get in right away do I see how it plays out any any thoughts on that yeah so and this this I think you could put this up at that list if you had one or two things that that I would say why retail investors lose money it's because they don't understand the value of something well you need to if you understand the value of a company you can compare that against its price which is not only share price but it's

the share price times the share count which is the market cap you need to understand the price to Value ratio if you if you're if the company is selling for less than it's worth and that differential equals what you're willing to risk like the risk is worth that differential if if it's recognized then there's your answer right there it's time to invest and vice versa if you're getting fair value if this is basically the upside is only only if a drill res comes through or only if something um

then it's telling you oh you should probably wait and see when the Market's more irrational or maybe I have to look somewhere else where I can get a a bit a bigger margin of safety which is sort of ambiguous in a in a sector where these companies don't make any money but margin of safety in terms of I need a big differential here to protect my downside and the upside sort of takes care of itself as the market gets better yeah and and this ties into another thing that I wanted to touch on with

with you which is the psychological aspect of of doing all this investing so it's not just choosing the right stocks it's knowing when you want to buy and sell in your rest tolerant so my impression is that you like to talk about this so I wanted to see if you had any other comments that you would give people on that note and just knowing thems well you know it's that it's a constant process like I've I've been at this nine years myself um I was at it a bunch of years before that before I did

this full-time and it's realize that it's a constant process of getting better learning more and it doesn't really stop I've done pretty well for myself and yet I can still having the mentors I do in my life I know that I have to continually go back to them and have Clarity on on things and stuff that I'm thinking about uh recently in in in January I was in Vancouver for a couple conferences and I had the chance to sit down one-on-one with a mentor and we were talking about a certain situation

it was actually investment in a private company OB oddly enough and uh and my feeling was you know what this company's overpriced but I sort of felt this need to to participate but it didn't feel right like I I thought I should participate but my God told me no and my mentor sat he's talking about it and he said you know what you're feeling it's probably right it's probably the route that you should take the key to it is don't regret it if you're wrong you're

going to be wrong so many times in investing in life in general that you can't look back and kick yourself because it's going to happen and you need to keep on moving forward and if you made a mistake in your analysis or you made a mistake in some regard try to fix it next time but don't look back and kick yourself like I've had a number of losses over my career going two years back 2024 was excellent with 2022 and 2023 I lost a lot of money and that was super hard on me but in retrospect it

set me up so well for the the stuff I did well in 2024 and what I will do well moving forward so so much of it is psychological and you can't beat yourself up for the mistakes you make because everybody makes them yeah I think that's that's an important message and I will let you go but before I do just any final thoughts you would leave investors with areas of interest for you right now I feel like we covered a lot of ground but anything you would add I I would say you know just I think the

opportunities and precious medals I really do and I think if if anything the best risk to reward is trying to find a company that fits your risk tolerance uh within the precious metal space and we covered again we did Cover a lot of good stuff and find what fits you and your outlook and don't be scared like the other thing that I've learned is that to make a disable difference in your life you have to take risk if if you don't take calculated risk don't expect anything to happen and that's one of the

biggest lessons I've learned and I know for if you're going to deploy money in this sector you must be willing to take some risk but you will be rewarded if you're right yeah calculated R calculated risk yeah just to be careful we we had that word okay this is really good thank you so much for for coming on to go through all of these topics really good to see and hope to have you back soon sounds good good and once again I'm Charlotte McLoud with investing news.com and this is Brian Lenny of Junior do

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