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 [Music] I'm Charlotte McLoud with investing news.com and here today with me is Brian London editor of gold newsletter thank you so much for being here great to be with you as always Charlotte really good to be catching up with you and as we've been saying this is my first interview of pdac so excited to get started we're catching up from our last conversation all the way back in November yeah so much is I made so many correct predictions back then didn't I and we're going to go through oh wonderful

wonderful none of the losers please no no only the good ones so we'll start with gold so gold has been running I know we have a little bit of a pullback right now but continued to run breaking new levels all the time it seems so do we need this this pullback right now is this healthy what we're seeing yeah it it's not surprising I mean we gained since the beginning of the year we gained $200 on the gold price in basically a month um so we've as we speak right now we've given up about

$100 of that that's completely unsurprising there's a lot of froth in the market that needs to be worked off um where we go from here in the near term is is always the question uh you look at the 20 uh 200 day moving average it's about $2,600 two other times during this one-year bull market which literally as we're speaking is is basically celebrating its one-year birthday uh over that period we've had two other times where we've corrected to the 200 day moving average if it does that this

would be the third time and that would be strong support but this is the first time that the the price of gold is that far above the 200 day moving average when it's corrected and I think we're in kind of a different Market environment right here I would be surprised if we went all the way back down to $2,600 but at that point I think it would be uh uh it would bounce off that support because I I really believe this is a long-term monetarily based bull market that has a lot of ring Tong right and so you kind

of mentioned the downside for gold that we could see there and I know you love to do price predictions so much so what does the upside look like in 2025 you know I hate to do price predictions I've been in this game long enough where I know better uh that said I think gold wants to to hit 3,000 I think that's an obvious Target kind of a magnet for the price uh a number of things projected that level or slightly above like the old cup and handle Etc but you know from a fundamental standpoint I think this is

a kind of Market that is reflecting the Ultimate Reset from a fiat currency and and really Global Financial system standpoint we've seen some really unusual flows in physical gold which I don't think are completely explained by the tax AR fears so I think that's all part and parcel of why Gold's got to build much higher uh as you know the the the big long-term driver for me is the debt situation in the US and how unsustainable that is it really is a trap for the for the US Financial system

and the FED specifically and there's no clear way out of it uh there's no way to uh accurately or pinpoint what lies ahead but we can be very confident that we're going to want to own gold and I believe silver going forward okay okay and let's follow up on some of the points there so you mentioned these these gold flows and that was definitely on my radar to ask you so you you said most people are looking at the terrorists as responsible for this maybe you have some different ideas so how are you seeing it well

there's um who knows where the gold is and if if it's where it's supposed to be you know in the in the 1990s my organiz ation published the work of a gentleman named Frank Vin aroso was a brilliant Market Economist in something called the gold book uh and it explained uh at that point in time in the the late 1990s how tons hundreds of tons of Central Bank gold around the world were being loaned or Borrowed by Central by bullion Banks who then sold the gold bought us treasuries then use that as

collateral to make bets in the market uh much more speculative bets we don't know know if all of that gold has ever been paid back and I'm not talking necessarily about us gold reserves and Fort Knox But Central Bank Reserves around the world uh if it was paid back it may have been paid back in cash and not actual gold so there may be a problem right now uh of getting gold where it's supposed to be I think these gold flows are somewhat related to Tower fears but I think there is more at work

that that in this a new era of transparency and politically u a a number of bulls running rough shot through China shops around the world that uh there's a rush to get gold where it should be at any price and beyond that we've seen strong central bank demand for gold over the last few years regardless and that still is strong buying a strong buying undercard below the market right and you mentioned also this this Fort Knox gold audit that we're hearing all of this talk about from Trump and from Elon Musk

so what what do you make of that I'm having a hard time figuring out why are they talking about this right now is this serious is it really going to happen yeah I I actually think it will they've made enough public statements Trump and uh uh uh Vance and and others about doing it I think they have to do it or followed through with it now the key is it can't be just counting gold it has to be actually determining who owns the gold what encumbrances are on the medal if any uh what would really amazed me was treasury

secretary bassant making those comments in a few interviews a week or so B that uh the gold is audited every year and any senator who wishes could go visit it and that is so far from the truth uh it's demonstrably false there are Senators who are being very public that they've been requesting to see it and have not been able to view it uh and the gold is not audited if anything they check to see that the seals are still in place but those seals have been broken numerous times over the years and there

has not been a full audit really uh since the 1940s if at all okay so maybe maybe we'll get to the bottom of this yes time we'll see we'll see and I want to continue on that note with Wick Trump because when we last spoke it was just after the election and happen so we knew that we were going to have another Trump presidency and we talked about these these efficiency and uh efforts to cuton spending and that kind of thing and I believe you'd said you know applaud the effort but you'll

see how that goes so any any further GS how are they doing yeah right now we're running again at about a $2 trillion deficit uh the Run rate is at about a $2 trillion deficit uh it was right about two trillion last year uh and and you know the the do effort if they achieve their goals their realistic goals they may be able to carve back uh less than one5 of that from government spending uh but on top of that we're going to have to face interest expenses uh I think again we have to applaud the effort Elon

Musk stood in front of Trump's first cabinet meeting and said this is something we have to do we're paying over a trillion dollars a year in in interest expense more than military and you know that I've been talking to you on camera about that for the last four or five years this is where we were going this is where we are there's no easy way out if you the FED Cuts rates As Trump eventually will want them to do then you add to the uh inflationary pressures uh but the tariffs will also

add on top of and inflation will in my you have another Spike higher uh Spike upward if you leave rates where they are or don't lower them uh fairly quickly then you have this problem compounding itself not only in added interest expense but there's nearly 10 trillion dollar of Treasury Securities that are rolling over in 2025 that have to be refinanced at current rates and they have to keep doing it at the short end of the curve because they can't term it out there's not enough liquidity there's

so much debt out there there's not enough liquidity at the longer end of the term uh it's a trap there's no way out of it and again I think what people need to do is not necessarily try to figure out the precise path forward because no one can but really know that under virtually any scenario going forward gold and silver are going to uh to be the place to be to protect ralt okay and and definitely we're going to talk a little bit more about that but before we go there I've got one question

for you on the debt which you mention we've been talking about this is a big concern for you and it seems like it's on Trump's list of concerns as well I was reading just the other day about this $5 million gold card Visa that he keep pitching it as a way to help pay down the country's debt any any thoughts on that interesting also it's called a gold c yeah it is interesting that it's called a gold card it's not being called a platinum or Bitcoin card or anything like that uh I think it's the kind of

thing that the the US should have done I don't think it's necessarily you know you have to specify the kind of investment in the US that that $5 million would do but it won't make a big dent because again the debt is so large our spending is so large and the um addressable market for such a 5 million dollar gold card or on trade of the US is not nearly as large as Trump was using in his projections so again I I applaud a lot of these policies and efforts um they maybe could be done better in some ways but it the situation

right now is truly out of control and the numbers are just too large for them to make any real I think effective way to get things back on track yeah yeah it's just to to heat to okay well let's take a look over at the the gold stocks and the silver stocks I think that everybody probably wants to hear about so when we had spoken before you mentioned they were trading Apple near 52v glows a lot of them so as gold is continued hired as a group how how are the gold socks performing at better

better uh not where they should be as yet you know if you look it's hard to track the Junior market very well uh through indices or anything like that but if you look at uh the major indices like for instance the GDX to Gold race here uh if you look at that since the very end of last year through about the first week of February the mining stocks were actually leveraging gold very strongly and when you consider what gold was during to that period going up $200 in the span of a month that's a very impressive

performance we also saw during that period in the Junior market and this is really just anecdotal information but I began to see that first sense of fomo in the market where uh Juniors were reacting well to Good News where companies that were able to finance before but not necessarily on the kind of terms they would like were able to get financings closed immediately at terms that they really wanted at good terms for them uh it still hadn't spread to the point where the the have not companies in the sector were able to

really get uh finan well but they were they were at least getting their phone calls returned all of this a anecdotally but it was looking good up to the first week of February after that gold started to correct and then we saw that the mining stocks also provided leverage on the way down as well uh but it was encouraging to me that investors and I think this extends Beyond this Market the sector that we're all in investors started to look to the mining sector as the way to leverage the metals and and

that's the first step and I think it was an important step uh so you know you know I'm an optimist on the long term I think with Metals prices like this with miners making as much money as they are with their margins as St as they are that uh money will eventually find its way to the sector and we don't need that much to get here to have really an outsized effect yeah yeah interesting to look at that that progress that you're see even if it is anotal and yeah we have talked about your your optimism and

how this is a generational opportunity that that we don't want Kiko to miss are we are we getting into that that area where maybe you will miss it if you do you keep waiting I think so you know that fomo is I say that what's really that's really what drivs the Junior market um and you could sense it people didn't want to miss the boat and it was starting to leave um yeah I if you look at at gold in particular we know silver hasn't performed as well but gold is at record highs not only at record highs

but far above previous records uh and headed higher uh if you look at the previous opportunity we had when I say generational you'd go back 20 25 years the turn of this Century we had gold uh bond out low prices we had the mining sector just really bond out as well but you had to have a lot of courage to believe that gold was eventually going to set new record highs which it eventually did now we're at those record highs the first part of the equation is already solved for us now we just need

the mining stocks to react the hard part is done in other words we got the metals to where they need to be Copper's looking good as well uh the Juniors will follow eventually they they virtually have to okay and always good to talk about gold one of my favorites and and for our audience as well but in 2025 I know I know you don't really focus so much on I like this commodity so onal after those talks but I'll ask anyway any any Commodities that you do like for 2025 uh unsurprised inly I like silver

um I have some contacts in the physical market and you know Silver's been undergoing some of those strange flows the same as as gold and I've never been a big believer in the industrial story for silver being a big driver however that's starting to take effect uh we don't see Western investor silver Demand yet uh which historically has been a big driver for silver for the silver price but we are seeing industrial demand uh for supplies that are very tight in the market I'm getting feedback from my

source is that silver supplies are in a crunch right now and that's going to be reflected in the price almost independent of what gold does in the near future okay that's very very interesting especially for you on on the silver side yeah and one of my favorite questions to ask you because I think we always get quite an interesting an answer is your portfolio full fly allocated right now you at PDC there's all these companies down on the yeah yeah and it's it's a frustrating

situation I am selling good companies to buy other good companies that have had good runs and buying some earlier stage stories that I like and I'm finding from my readers uh and trying to get positioned in those you know I don't buy stocks before I recommend them to my readers unless it's in a private placement I'm seeing a few placements here and there uh but I'm trying to rush out some new recommendations to my readers of exciting stories so that they can benefit and then hopefully I'll

still have a chance to get in personally but uh there are some interesting stories out there we have recommended a few in the the last couple of months in Gold newsletter that are are doing very well right now and there are some more coming up okay okay good to hear you're cycling through and finding new things okay I will I'll let you go right now I know it's busy day probably for you here but before I do any final thoughts that you would share with the audience I feel like there are so many things happening

right now especially in Gold under the surface what are you watching yeah I uh I think you want to find or make sure your position for the ultimate move in Gold we've had a great move this correction is expected and healthy this m this is another one of those you know it's kind of Tred to say windows of opportunity that should be taken advantage of I I think that uh we see that one sector of the junior miners that I've talked about a good bit of those companies that have big identified resources of

Economics on them uh they are starting to get attention now we some of the ones that I've been talking about is screaming buys over the last year or so and probably in November when we last talked or up 50 or 60% and still are at small fractions or already should be in just a normalized tomor market so if there's one sector uh that I like right now I say there's two sectors it's the companies that have this big resources that you have an idea of what their value is and I think silver juniors are

really good places to be right now okay well that's a great note to wrap it up on thank you so much for coming by always good to see you always a pleasure Charlotte so great to be with you really good and once again I'm Charla McLoud with investing news.com and this is bran mundon with gold newsletter [Music] down