[Music] I'm Charlotte McLoud with investingnews decom and here today with me is Byron King editor at Paradigm press which was formerly a Gora Financial he is a geologist and a longtime newsletter writer who has worked closely with Jim records thank you so much for being here thank you Charlotte it's great to be with you really good to be catching up with you I think we we crossed paths at pdac but we're we're going to do our cat up here and definitely there's there's a lot going on I know gold was a strong
theme at pdac and of course it remains a really big topic of Interest trading at or near all-time highs very consistently so let's start with the gold price and I'll ask you has has the speed that gold has gotten to this level surprised you at all uh no not really uh we were talking about this you know you and I have been talking about this for several years uh last year we spoke we we missed each other Pac just circumstances you know and uh late last year you know people were asking me you know hey what
do you think about the price of gold is if you know so if I have a crystal ball but I but I said you know 3,000 by June 30th of 2025 well it beat me by a couple of months and you know by quite a bit really uh the thing that was driving gold and we knew this way back when and I think I told this I think I said this to you when we spoke the last time which was it's been a while but the big buyers are central banks as central banks are buying gold they they buy they don't sell you know they and so and so they
and they buy big amounts these aren't your little onesie TWY you know 10 you know one five 10 ounces of gold you know retail you know we're not buying coins here you know we're buying buying this stuff by the you know the hundreds of pounds and the tons and such you know so the so that serious uh demand that was driving the price you know retail has been on the side when I say retail I just mean you know normal investors out there and even you know well- healed family offices I mean you know even
really wealthy people I mean you know some Sometimes some of those people their idea of buying a lot of gold is you know a million bucks two million bucks five million bucks or something like that that's nice but you're not a central bank okay you know you're not buying Central Bank levels central banks drove the price central banks you know lifted it up steadily surely you know in the face of all the you know the kind of the resistance in kind of the monetary West which hates Gold by the way way you
know go because gold embarrasses them for their mismanagement of their of their currencies you know that we won't go there but but but but what was driving the price of gold up was Central Bank purchases of real gold now the lag between gold prices and the gold miners the guy the people who actually mine this stuff is the central banks bought gold they didn't buy mining shares you know huh okay well uh oh but the thing is is that what's happening now today is we speak uh as the gold miners are
mining their gold and selling it they're ringing the cash register and they are racking up unbelievably good uh profit margins and so the rest of you know the the stock market investing World ww street so to speak Wall Street Bay Street whatever you know you know the city of London they're oh hey what are the what are these mining companies here making all this money so so now we're starting to see some of that money uh you know flow into the mining shares uh as well as on the other side you know
we've got kind of a technology selloff you know you know Tesla loses half or was half its value or something like that 700 billion dollars or whatever in the last couple of months um you know some of that money had to go somewhere you know if just a little bit of money goes into the mining sector yeah man it's just it's it's just it's just fireworks you know so so that's kind of what's going on in terms of the price of B yeah I think you've hit on a number of directions already that I want to follow
you and maybe starting a little bit more about what is driving the gold priz right now because I had in mind to ask you you know what's going on here is it more to do with those big underlying drivers like the central banks or are we seeing now more things like the recent headlines around tffs and that kind of thing start to play in how how would you break that down well that the Tariff uh story I guess would call it was very convenient uh because a lot of people out there you know they don't like Trump
and so anything Trump does is bad and so anything bad that happens has to be Trump's fault you know so so uh when they see something weird going on you know they wait a minute all that gold all that physical gold they're moving it from London to the United States H they're chartering airplanes to fly it they're they're putting gold bars in the cargo holds of commercial flights from Heathrow when it's not shut down because of a fire you know from he to you know to to North America you know and it's
Trump because they want to get that money into the United States before Trump puts a tariff what are you cra are you crazy come on you know I mean Trump trump is very targeted in his tariffs we can talk about Trump's tariffs and I hope we do but but do you really think Trump wants to put a tariff on Imports of gold bars are you kidding I mean Trump wants to put tariffs on Imports of car parts or tires or Auto engines or you know things like because he wants to create jobs in the United States Building car parts and
tires and car engines stuff like that but he he doesn't care about you know a tariff on importing gold bars and Trump I've never met the guy I don't work for him but Trump I think would love to have more gold bars in the United States you know I think he I think deep down in his in his monetary DNA I think Trump's a gold bug you know don't know that I mean just talk about oh I'm gonna go want to go visit Fort Knox and all that you know he he uh you he he likes gold and he
understand he he understands more about gold than the than a whole bunch of the last you know series of US presidents you know I mean I think the only the last president who maybe understood gold a little bit was Reagan because he was raised you know he was a he was a young fell in the days of Calvin kulage you know and in the 1920s I mean back when the US was still on a real gold standard you know but but uh most US presidents don't get gold at all Trump I think gets it more than most um and uh compared to
some of the economic illiterates that we've had as president you know in recent decades uh you can use your imagination uh you know you know Trump understands but no he's not gonna he's not going to tear up gold so the whole movement of gold to the US uh was not to beat uh Trump's terior the movement of gold to the US was because uh in many many many ways people don't trust you know the UK or the bank of England anymore we could go down that rabbit hole if you want but the UK is just
self-destructing before our eyes uh the bank of England you know could easily uh you know you know go broke in its own in its own way uh and um and then people in the United States who worry about you know monetary stability and monetary security they are you know they're they're bringing gold in uh as well uh and you know as from the standpoint of you know from an American standpoint I think it's great you know I mean most most Americans don't understand gold it's been since 1933
when Franklin Roosevelt seized everybody's gold coins uh that you know we've had you know you know 90 90 92 years of people just not understanding gold anymore and uh every everybody who used to understand it has died off and there's just a few left I mean Jim Rickards who you mentioned I work with him he was really one of the last um you know uh academic level trained economists to go through like a gold program when he was a Johns Hopkins he talks about this uh that they actually taught about gold when he was at Johns
Hopkins in the early 1970s uh but then you know by the by the and I remember this myself from Harvard my Harvard days I mean we we they mentioned the word gold you know in economics class I was a geology major but I took economics class they mentioned the word gold but then it was like off to off to kianis you know off to Monitor and things like that it's all about interest rates and you know it's all about you know kind of you know monetary Voodoo that uh that we live with today okay really interesting and I don't I don't
want to divert you too much down down a pathway here but tell me a little bit more about this reason for bringing gold into the us and that bank of England distress angle because I've been hearing a lot about how yeah this is all related to the tariffs etc etc well again yeah again it's not it's not tariffs it's it's that uh the the UK is uh as a political entity is is is falling apart I mean it uh there I mean they've got massive demographic problems they've got massive you know fiscal
problems paying their bills uh the the the pound is uh the pound is is is a historically weak uh currency the uh uh I mean if you if you read sort of you know like deep into the you know deep into the you know internet you know discussion uh you know the UK aside from the fact that they've disarmed everybody they have no second amendment and nobody has any guns in the UK you know I mean the UK the UK is ready to break part you know I mean Scotland wants to go this way and Wales wants to go that way and
England here and you know Northern IR Ireland you're on your own um and uh they they do not control their borders they do not uh uh you know they they it is a it is it is becoming a very very poor country you know I mean it is really uh I mean I've been there over the years and uh my my first trip to London as a you know just as a young guy was I think it was 1970 now and London was London man it was like too it was cool it was fun yeah know then you go there for the next you know some many
many years and it's like it changes it's like who you know what's going on with this place you know so um as you know that's kind of the the cultural demographic sociological view of it in terms of the monetary side um you know there are there are images videos photographs of you know the Vault of the bank of England they've got all these gold bars there you know I mean I remember seeing you know the lake Queen QE2 you know visiting the bank of England in the gold vault now now that's
actually a really nice idea that you get on there and you take a stroll among the gold bars you to reassure the world I would you know that's why Trump ought to go to Fort Knox although that the vault is much smaller you know but uh you show the people that it's there but the thing is just because the gold is there sitting on the shelf doesn't mean it's yours you know I mean it might be yours in the sense that you know you got a guy with a gun you know who's gonna Guard the guard the door but uh that that gold
that gold allall has you know somebody else's name attached to the title certificate you know and so uh I I think a lot of people not just in America but around the world are you know repatriating whatever gold they can get out of the London vaults uh gold is going to the Middle East gold is certainly gold going to China we know that you know um you know coming coming to America to the extent that you know if an American can get those gold bars out of London get them out now you know uh because uh who knows what's going to
happen later uh when when not if um you know this current monetary global system really you know hits the hits hits the final Iceberg so to speak uh and we it gold the price of gold will you know Skyrocket uh in a way that that is going to make it very very difficult physically to transport the stuff because nobody's going to know how to Value it anymore uh you've interviewed our mutual good friend Rick rule for example you Rick Rick speaks highly of you and you know that you I know you've
I know you've talked with him and I've watched your videos with with Rick R ARS Rick likes to say that he's not worried about you know 3,000 4,000 $5,000 gold uh and you know but but he's worried but he's worried about 10,000 or 15 or $20,000 gold because of what it means to the rest of the economy you know when gold gets up to those ethereal levels like that uh it means that much of the rest of the economy is going to go nuts you know that that you know instead of you know $4 a gallon for gasoline it's
going to be you know you know $24 or $40 for a gallon of gasoline instead of you know instead of you know you know $5 for a gallon of milk at the at the grocery store it's going to be $50 for a gallon of milk if there's a gallon of milk on the Shelf fre you to bot you know so uh so again that gets into some very uh uh you know it goes It goes It goes down a dark path you know and and uh uh and and the problem is that you know this isn't just you know gloom and Doom you know you know fear mongering all I mean the
problem is is that that the world is on a dark pathway you know I mean in so many ways I mean you know war in Ukraine maybe war in the Pacific um you know you know War you know definitely there's kinetic war in the Middle East I mean for sure you know from Israel Yemen you know what's going on with Iran I mean I mean it's there's there's a fear trade going on so anybody who can get their hands on on some gold some physical gold bring it home put it in the safe put it in the vault put it wherever if you're a
central bank or if you're just Joe investor out there Susie investor you know if if you don't have any gold get some you know silver uh as well but if if you don't have it get some and if you uh you do have it you know just uh make sure make sure you don't forget the combination to your safe or make sure you remember where you buried it you know out in the backyard or or dropped it in the lake and and you know in your plastic tubes or something yeah that's that's definitely
very important and that's one of my favorite I think Rick R quotes there and I like to remind myself of that when I start to maybe get too excited when I see the price going up is okay what else is going on in the world to make that happen and you know you mentioned the queen walking through the vaults looking at all this gold I have one more question on that note because I know that people are thinking about you you mentioned the Fort Knox audit as well and you know Trump should go in there
and take a look but people have that concern there as well as okay maybe the gold is there but who's is it do you do you have worries about that absolutely I am deeply deeply concerned about it um the the the very you know the DNA of Fort Knox the very very beginning of Fort Knox is uh you know has has led to uh a problematic view of you know what's inside what's inside the walls there what's behind the wire uh you know in 1933 one of the very very first things that Franklin Roosevelt did was
executive order uh you know everybody in America turn in your gold turn in your gold coins all every all every person every business every Bank every you everything every Church you know give give it all you can keep a few little monetary numismatic coins you but but if you don't turn it in you're going to jail so what happened after that well within a couple of months you know the US government had you know vaults filled with bags of gold coins you know little gold coins you know what do you do with
that stuff how do you keep track of it okay so you know politics is what it is so let's melt it all down so literally they just poured these gold coins into the melting melted them down and they poured these 400 ounce bars of gold and about you know it's about they're about like 25 pound bars of gold and um they are not you now to the extent that some of those gold bars are still around you know many of them are still around in fact uh they are the Metallurgy of the gold coins from 1933 so it's about 90 something per
gold with some copper a little bit of silver and some kind of whatever other Trace metals were in the coins back at the time because they weren't the the Metallurgy in the you know what made those coins in the 1890s and early 1900s the metalurgy wasn't what we have today you know so anyhow so those gold bars are what they are so they went into they went into Fort Knox which was built in a crash program in I think 1936 I believe they built it inside of a year which is just pretty amazing you know with
government work you know wow okay I'm impressed you know um and uh and and it wasn't really built to show off the gold it was really built as a place to just stash the bars you know so so theoretically the bars are all stashed in there real tight um it's very very logistically difficult to get in there even if you're allowed in which nobody is except for you know a few people that work for the US Treasury or whatever uh but I mean if you want to audit Fort Knox you somebody literally has to form
a Bucket Brigade you know like here's a gold bar give it to you here's a gold bar give it to you and they have to pass those bars out and to the extent they have serial numers you got to look at the serial number which you know um and you you you weigh it and you assay it and you do some tests on it to make sure that it is what it is and you know and uh and so you know those that's just physically to count and assay the bars would probably take two years uh and then we get to this issue of you know
who owns it is it really the United States government's gold or not because a lot of the gold that's in there went in there during World War II that was British gold there was even Soviet gold because the Soviets paid for a Lend Lease during World War II with gold bars I mean they literally shipped gold bars to the United States which wound up at Fort Knox uh South Africa huge mining country you know then and now but even more so then they didn't stop mining gold during World War II they they mined
gold but what they do with it you know they didn't just keep it in South Africa they actually send a lot of South Africa so what's inside Fort Knox well you know uh the two great questions you know what do we have what what alien technology do we have in those tunnels out an area 51 in Nevada that we captured from the space alien and the other one what's inside Fort Kno well there will be gold bars will there be exactly what the treasury says I don't know you know I me good good luck and it'll take us a
couple of years to find out if you really want to know uh and and in that regard you know just just moving the bars is a logistical Nightmare and to the extent you once you pull those bars out you may as well just have a mobile furnace you know sitting there in the parking lot of the uh of Fort Knox depository just melting it down and you know cleaning up that gold and you know repouring you know you know 9999 good bars out of it um you know clean it up but am I worried about what's inside for
KNX absolutely yes because even though even though the US government says oh you know we don't worry about gold you know I mean if if all the gold was at the bottom of Lake Superior you know would it really matter you know if a ship sank with all the gold would it who cares it's because you know we're on our monetary system it's the good faith and credit of the United stes St is behind it all and all that kind of stuff you know yeah they say that okay they say that but really deep
in their hearts they know that if word got out that there is some problem with the golden Fort Knox if there is a problem with the golden Fort Knox that the US dollar would crash overnight and you know we we'd have that $25 gallon of gas and we'd have that you know $50 gallon of milk you know so yeah it's it's a really fascinating topic and we'll have to keep an eye and see if that audit or the Trump walkthrough actually happened I was I'm a little disappointed there hasn't been
any followup yet but I guess I guess Trump and Elon have other things on their mind right now yeah they're bombing Yemen you know so I mean that keeps them busy you know but yeah it's uh uh yeah I mean they should they sh he should go there you know make the time to go there you know frankly I I don't know I I I learned long ago bad news doesn't improve with age you know and uh you and and and Trump is new is fresh enough in office he's still this he's in like the second or he's in the third
month of being in office you know you know January February you it's the end of March uh he's new enough in office that you know he can he can wash his hands of a lot of bad things and say yeah this is what I inherited you know uh and uh but but after a while you know you know Biden's problem becomes Trump's problem you know Biden's war in the Ukraine becomes Trump's war in the Ukraine you know you know Biden's inflation becomes Trump's inflation you know you know I mean you after a while
you you you you know people get tired of you pointing fingers at somebody else you but uh but yeah he should he should jump in the Jet and he should go there and they should open the doors I mean he loves the TV cameras so you you know that you know just go down there just let look open open the VA that big you know you know you know 21 ton vault door or whatever it is you know open the thing up and look in there and you know obvious you know like I said it take two years to audit the stuff it's not like
he's going to do that but uh um but but he should at least go there to say yeah there it is you know and uh uh and then then let the technical experts you know dig dig in dig in on it I mean I mean if if Trump wants to get interest rates down if Trump wants to um you know kind of calm the Waters of the economy I I actually think a visit to Fort Knox a successful visit to Fort Knox don't open the door and it's empty you know that no that's that that's bad television okay and he understands bad TV uh go go to
Fort Knox look in there and just see there it is there's your there's your there's your gold bar and uh uh take take it from there I he doesn't take my advice so he never calls I don't I don't get it yeah yeah you're right though he likes good TV that would be good TV so so we'll keep an eye on that and speaking of things that Trump has been busy with you mentioned we should probably talk a little bit more about the tariffs so tariffs a little bit difficult to talk about because they are
changing from from day to day maybe from hour to hour I know right now it's the auto tariffs that are Focus looking toward April 2nd I believe we've got those reciprocal tariffs scheduled to come in so what is your view on the overall situation is this something that could deescalate or or we headed toward more bigger trade War concerns here well okay boy you're this is really a this is a a hot nerve kind of you know kind of kind of Point here when I was in you know I'm I'm I'm a I'm an American
living in the USA I was up in Toronto during pedac you know and that that and I I remember going down to the convention center and I was I took an Uber I guess it was nuber yeah taxi or nuber and the guy had the radio on and it was local Toronto news and oh man the whoever it was the talk radio people they were just slamming Trump oh tariffs on Canadian Goods tariffs on this how could they how could he do that how could he do that and uh you know my taxi driver is like you know what do you think about what do you think about
those ter oh God what I don't even want to talk about this I don't want you to you drive us into a telephone po or something you know um yeah I you know as somebody who works a lot with Canadians you know and I've been working with Canadians for a long long long long time I mean yeah back both geologically and even in my Navy days I mean I I work very very closely with the Canadians and I I remember the great fabulous old days of Ronald Reagan and Brian morrone um I actually met Bri morrone once at some
Embassy I was I was in the Navy I I was working with the Canadians somehow or another I got on the invite list to the Canadian embassy for a Christmas party and Bron morron was there and I I met you know they introduced me oh this this young guy here he helps us with our F-18 and oh oh keep them keep them flying yeah okay great you know I was helping to you know keep the Canadian Forces airplanes you know spare parts and air to air missiles and stuff like that long long story but you know I just I thought
that was fabulous and I and and out of Reagan came the first you know canadian-american Free Trade Agreement and that was in the late 80s early 90s C Canadian America free trade agreement and I thought that was fabulous back then I mean that's this was me but you know and then but then that morphed into NAFTA North American you know with the Mex with Mexico at it you know and and you know and then as the 90s unfolded I'm thr some history here sorry um as the 90s unfolded this place called China
became China China China became China Inc you know they just they they just built them built every kind of factory you can imagine and you that big sucking sound you heard uh Ross perau was talking about it in the 1992 election the big sucking sound would be us jobs going to Mexico well the next big sucking sound was you know us jobs going to China so Along Comes Trump you know and he uh he tours the country and he gets elected you know by these people they're called voters you know voters they vote out in voter land you know and
there's a lot of Voters out in voter land who's who live in a town or they live in a region where there used to be a big industry big Factory big Mill big mind big complex or whatever and it's closed you know and their and their kids are dying of Fentanyl and their kids are you know people have no hope you know uh yes I mentioned earlier the UK is becoming a poor country the United States is a relatively poor country too in so many ways I mean yeah we have a lot of rich people and they live in
their gated communities and you know they do very well but I mean I mean I I travel a lot you know in my job job geology get out in the field driving around everything there's a lot of poor people in the United States and uh um they voted and and Trump's in office and his promise to them was I'm gonna bring you back jobs well how do you do that well you know how do we get the factory back here you know how do we get the mill back here okay well you know tariffs is one way to do it um is it is
it you know is what he's doing is it fair is it right is it a good thing I mean we want to build ships in America we want to build rebuild the Navy you build with steel so you put what 25% tariffs on steel from Canada you know why um I don't know I feel I feel bad for the steel workers in Hamilton I feel you know like why why can't why don't why can't they you know just keep you know doing keep doing their thing and you know we we trade back and forth um so as far as what what are the tariffs
going to do uh I think he's very serious about certain targeted tariffs and they're going to happen you know uh steel aluminum Auto auto parts for sure I mean he he he won the state of Michigan Wisconsin you know they make Auto Parts they Indiana you know uh Northern Ohio I mean lot lots of auto part plants there you know and uh he he you make it in the US uh and and in the first two months of his office of his office he's he's got something like what's what's the number something like
three trillion dollar of uh of of investment commitments you know from ostensibly global companies but I mean uh uh Honda Honda Hundai um uh you know various various other auto companies they're going to build plants in the US so uh he he is three three trillion dollar that's 10% of the US GDP in the first two months of commitments to capex in the United States so they the tariffs have definitely you know changed the landscape you know they've changed the investment landscape they they they've become a a a source or
or a draw you might say for foreign Capital you know into the United States you know invest here build a plant here etc etc the fights that we see over you know oh we're not going to you know import your Kentucky bourbon or you know we're not going to import your California wines okay yeah um I feel bad for the Kentucky bourbon makers you know the California venters you know uh at the same time you know I mean you're you know let me say to my Canadian friends you know you guys have a lot of tariffs
yourselves you know look in the mirror you know wake up morning take a good hard look in the mirror and ask yourself how many tffs do we have on us items you know more than more than more than people know you know you there's a long list and the Europeans are even worse you know the Europeans EU is even worse you know um and you know again other another crazy angle when Kier starmer was in in visiting Trump not too long ago Trump offered the United Kingdom a free trade agreement and for some
bizarre reason starmer turned it down and had to do with you know you know you know come on board with us with solving the Ukraine war you know and starmer wouldn't do it uh I mean how do you turn down a free trade agreement with the United States if you know certainly if you're the United Kingdom I mean come on you know the guys the guy that guy's nuts uh for for walking past that and so uh um so your question was what about terrorists they're going to happen they're going to be targeted uh it's
going to be things that are visible like Metals aluminum you know uh uh steel uh copper even because you know I mean Trump wants to see development in the United States he wants us to develop copper mines in Arizona and uh uh Alaska and you know other places uh I mean I have spent lots of I've spent years of my you know newsletter writing life covering Canadian companies and I there's so many wonderful Canadian companies that I've dealt with in you know in Quebec and Ontario well all the
provinces you know Yukon the Yukon you know that we' talked about Yukon companies in the past so uh that's that's at least in like the short to medium term the long term is you know what you know we're on this continent together you're Canada don't worry you're not going to be the 51st state frankly we don't want you as the 51st state we like you as Canada uh we you know you you don't want you you don't want to be us and we don't want to be you uh but we do want to be you know the
long deep friends that we've been for a long time so that's that's my that's my geopolitical analysis okay okay so that's that's the take on tariffs I've got I think I've got one more follow up on tariffs which is about the inflation angle so there's a lot of talk about whether these tariffs are going to be inflationary and of course we've got the fed that's kind of got its tenuous control over inflation at the moment Trump would like to see lower interest
rates how do you see this panning out oh that's that's also a good question I mean you know the idea that you put tariffs on imported aluminum means that something like a Ford 150 truck you know which has an aluminum body you know uh the price goes up or you know I mean Aerospace grade aluminum you know the price for Boeing goes up or the price for locky to build you know f35s goes up you know uh yeah that's uh that that's an angle of inflation another thing though that happens is that you know
suppose you put a you know 25% tariff on let's just say pick a pick a country Canada you know and let's say that the Canadian dollar declines by some amount because of you know because of the trade war with the US well all of a sudden you're you know the 25% isn't really the 25% you know uh the I was just following some economic data from China for which has you know some new tariffs on it and producers in China are really screaming because you know their buyers in the US are saying listen guys you know we have
this 20% tariff you know on your product you need to lower your price to us now the Chinese companies the Chinese factories are saying oh we're already giving you the you know the for you best price lowest price possible you know um and but and the American buyers are like hey you know drop it down you know and uh so the Chinese the Chinese Yuan will you know deteriorate uh that those the the tariffs will adjust in terms of the currency values the exchange rate values uh and to the extent that uh prices for
certain things go up in the United States um you know people will buy fewer of them and uh uh and you know Life Will Go On will the basics matter you know will will the price of eggs go up no actually the price of eggs are going down will the price of milk go up no price of milk is going down how about the price of gasoline price of gasoline's going down in America you know well uh you know will the price of you know uh other things that you know that we can control in the United States they go up you know I mean that's just
it is what it is I mean airlines are selling fewer seats right now so airline tickets are actually going down so you know I mean uh everything comes out in the out in the wash you know but uh I I suspect that um that that the Trump's tariffs will not be the inflationary kick that a lot of uh people think I I think it'll it'll it'll be more moderate than than than you think and then that feeds into you know the whole interest rate argument you know what what will the FED do with interest rates you know
well you know Trump is already kind of at war with the fed you know I mean he didn't he doesn't like this fed he has he has his own people he wants to put in there uh and that's a whole another that's a whole another story in terms of uh you know how what we're going to Happ interest rates I mean Trump's a real estate guy real estate guys love low interest rates um you know the US national debt needs low interest rates because when you had $37 trillion national debt the difference between you
know a 5% Bond greater of 4% or you know 3 and a half% that's huge money when when it comes to you know paying out the interest on the debt we're in we United States of America US Treasury are in the process right now of rolling over some ungodly huge amount of the national debt in the next 18 months I mean out of that $37 trillion national debt something like 28 trillion of it is going to roll in the next 18 months and if it rolls at a higher rate the US interest payments you're just going to go through the roof
and so um the country cannot the treasury the country can and the and the country behind the treasury cannot afford in any way to let those rates drift up uh and I think the preference is to you know get get the rates down so yeah yeah I think that seems like it's GNA be how it hands out and I was wrong I've got one more question on the tariffs and I'm hoping we can go back and and take a little bit more of a look at Copper because it's it's kind of an interesting situation where it's not
tariffs yet it's this section 232 investigation which maybe people remember from from uranium a few years ago so I'm curious to get your take on how we might see that P out I was seeing headlines today that make it seem even like he wants to speed up this this process well um you know copper is doing very well we're in that you know $5 a pound range uh for for for uh copper and um I I think that the future of copper is really you know kind of Supply driven in the sense that you know we've got a
we've got a a tight Tighter and Tighter and Tighter Supply coming out of the ground globally and the demand is is there you know the you know whe whether it's the developed World whether it's the US Canada Europe Japan Australia whether it's the you know the Western World or whether it's the the rest of the world uh that is uh develop they need copper you know China needs copper everybody needs copper you know Africa needs copper you know uh you know everybody wants electric lights everybody wants
you know microwave ovens refrigerators air conditioners all that stuff uh and so tariffs or not you know um tariffs are a distraction to the fundamental story of copper which is that looking ahead there's not enough of it coming out of the ground and the demand for it is growing and so uh a good copper deposit and a good copper you know play you know whether it's a whether it's a real life BigTime copper Miner whether it's free Port macaran you know nothing wrong with that you know BHP you know
you know uh any anybody that does big copper you know whether it's a you know uh you know intermediate Siz company whether it's you know we get into these Juniors that we don't want to talk about because you know you know those are the newsletter uh the newsletter uh portfolio companies you know uh we don't give those away but um uh a good copper play you know a very Advanced developer that's moving into production is a fabulous investment right now um you know anything can happen in the world
economy I mean where there could be a war there can be a you know market crash all that kind of stuff but but in terms of you know you know what are the trends you know the trend is your friend uh with copper uh and so so so copper is uh copper is strong and getting stronger uh Supply demand fundamentals really they Trump the tariffs you know to use Trump in a like small T Trump not Big T Trump you know uh but yeah uh Supply demand is is way more important right now than any tariff Trump could put on any uh copper that shows up at
the Port of Houston or you know Port of Long Beach okay okay I think that's really useful and a good reminder not to get too too caught up in these exciting headlines so for copper then I think for a long time I've been hearing that Supply demand Dynamics look really good but it's it's a longer term story so has this has this possibly accelerated the the copper timeline is is now the time if you want to get into copper should you do that now well I don't think it's I don't think it's a bad time to get in
Copper now at all uh because copper is you know just is another of the hard assets you know you got gold you got silver you know copper is right behind I mean in a in a metallurgical sense in a periodic table sense you know copper silver gold I mean these are all very very you know atomically similar and you know nucle nucleus uh electrons all electron structure and you know just their usefulness uh this just that copper is a lot more abundant than gold and silver I mean you know you can uh I mean you you can make uh uh you know you
could wire your house with gold you could wire your house with silver wire but but you don't because it's too expensive but you wire your house with copper wire you know so so yes the this is this is a good time to be uh you know get into copper uh as the general monetary problems in the world get worse and they are getting worse you know I mean whatever Trump does whatever whatever everybody else does they are getting worse you know uh people are moving into hard assets hard assets meaning uh you know things like copper
so yeah uh it is not a bad time at all I mean you know if you try to if you try to time it you probably time it wrong uh it's it's never it's never wrong to uh uh uh it it right I say it's never wrong it's not a bad time right now to uh to to to get in before the big rush I mean well yeah you you you kind of missed you missed this part of it already Okay this this part has already happened but there's still a whole lot of this left you know so uh so you get get in here don't wait till don't wait it till it's
you know way up there you know yeah yeah yeah I think that provides some good context on copper and then I also want to make sure we touch a little bit more on the gold stocks as well because I think we mentioned our last conversation was quite a while ago and at the time we were still waiting I think you're telling us you know we have to wait and see the higher gold price beat reflected in the gold miners results and then they'll start to get that raer attention so I want to check in on that of course
of course the gold price is now being reflected in those results so to what extent are the gold is getting that generalist broader attention right now oh well well big names are are easy for you know the big funds and the big money managers to roll into I mean you know it's kind of like the old saying nobody ever got fired for using IBM you know right about now nobody's going to get fired for buying you know baric or numot something like that you know uh a lot of people have moved into I'll give you
another name a really nicely run company kin Ross you know KGC with you know it's it's big it's it's extensive it's all over the place uh it's making money really you know Big Time really nice nice earnings nice nice bottom line nice margins you know uh and uh uh oh golly um I'm just you know you know ago Eagle I mean you there yeah am uh um yeah yeah there there are some great companies out there that are that are showing it on the bottom line you know BEC I mean when
you're the their costs haven't gone up that much I mean the price of oil price of diesel fuel you know is moderated you know that I mean you know everybody has problems price of labor price of you know food for the canteen you know price of you know tires for the trucks and you know blades for the caterpillar equipment and all that kind of stuff I mean you know the whole supply chain is really it's tight and it's expensive and there's there's definitely inflation in the supply chain but when you're selling
$33,000 gold and not $2,000 gold or $1800 gold you know um you you you are outpacing you know the th those cost increases so so a lot of gold miners are definitely worth looking at in terms of you know what's on what's on their bottom line yeah and just a follow-up question there so we see these big companies they're doing well the results are coming in in share prices are moving I know a lot of investors are looking down the food chain and they wonder when will those smaller companies start to
move and we don't we don't need to mention names but just curious to get your thoughts on when I guess a broader Gold stock rally might start to happen well you know when when will it happen my my view of you know the smaller names is that yeah it would be nice to see a sector rally where like everybody goes up you know the rising tide lifts lifts everybody's boat but in terms of the smaller names you you want to get into stock picking you know you and not just one stock or two or three I
mean you you want to have like 10 or 12 you know you want to put put some money into each of them because you never know which one's going to come up with the drill hole that just blows people's you know uh you know eyeballs it's just wow look at that you know um you know I I'll mention a small company except it's a big company it look at snow line for example snow line up in the Yukon I mean I you know the um they are an advanced Explorer you know and they are far away from everything and the roads and
everything but they're super well run and their their ore body is absolutely massive it's just unbelievably ungodly big and every time they drill a hole it's you know they're pulling gold out of the you know when I say they're pulling gold they're pulling gold indications you know out in the rock you know I mean sometimes it's difficult uh and they typically end in mineralization and they only stop drilling because you know they ran out of drill pipe you know or they okay this this was going to be a
it was going to be an 800 meter hole and we drilled 800 meters and you know um you look at a company like that I mean they went from just just your basic Canadian Junior out in the middle of you know the bushwack of of uh you know Northeast Yukon uh to a massive market cap and I it's it's up up near a billion dollars I I I didn't look at it lately but it's it's huge you know and they you know somebody's going to come along and just buy them on spec kind of like how what was it Great Bear in U in U um Red
Lake uh got you know got bought and uh because there's just so much there's just so much resource there you know somebody's gonna somebody come along now you say well gee you know snow line that's kind of a pricey share now yeah but there are some other companies out there that are you know they're snowline wannabes and they're Snow Line tobes perhaps you know Snow Line without the share price Rocket Ride yet you know and those are those are the ones that you want to have in your portfolio of 10 or
12 names you know and uh um with with paradig I got give now since we're Paradigm press you know Paradigm press group Paradigm press group.com something like that um we we have you know through the Jim Rickers franchise you know we we cover gold silver other mining plays whatever uh we got some got some ideas for you out there and uh uh and in fact I'm working even you know when I when I finished here I'll get back to working on it I'm working on a project that's going to be you know I I want I want to
talk about talk about 20 Baggers you know I mean in my past in my newsletter writing P yeah I've done what I call 20 Baggers you know where you buy them at four you know at some number and you know 20 20 times 20x those kind of 20 Baggers will change your life you know mean you know you know 5,000 bucks becomes 100,000 bucks you know you pay some college tuitions for that so um yeah but don't think it's just going to be one stock you know you need to you need to put it into like you know 10 or
12 spread it around and you know and then you know go with go with the guys that uh that start pulling it out of the ground yeah yeah absolutely I think I'm hearing more and more that people need to really do their research and not bet on this across the board gate like that's not the way to do it at this time so I think that helps a lot probably with people's strategy and Before I Let You Go I want to touch on maybe a fun topic that relates to many of the other things that we've been
talking about which is critical minerals so know that you you love to look at gold silver copper those kind of more basic ones but you're also out there looking at things that people might not be so aware of but critical minerals they're really coming into the spotlight right now with all the tariffs and countries looking inside themselves for their supply chain so what is on your radar right now what stands out to you well I'm glad you asked you do you have another hour here no okay quickly
quickly the other side of American tariffs is foreign embargos okay because you we can we United States we can tear up anybody we want but then on the other side if they get mad at us uh they'll say wow we're going to embargo shipments of XYZ to you China has done this I mean they've embargoed you know gallium geranium which are critical in the semiconductors they've embargoed tungsten which is absolutely critical uh for you know machine tools for defense applications things like
that uh they've embargoed antimony or antimony is the British call it you know an yeah I call it antimony because I'm you know that's how I learned it um which you say well ant what do they use antimony for well it's a fire supressant but it's also the the the substance that goes into ammunition primers if you want to make bullets you know rounds if you want to make you know rockets that go Zoom through the sky you need antimony in your in your propellant mixture or your you know your fuel mixture uh and
uh you know who produces most of the world's antimony China who produces most of the world's you know uh tungsten Russ or China you know uh you know who's number two well Russia Russia the same thing yeah who's number three oh you know North Korea you friend people like that I mean how much of that stuff do we produce in the United States of America real easy number zero you know uh there are animony deposits there are tungsten deposits but they're not up and running uh are there animony and U uh tungsten
deposits in Canada absolutely I can tell you that one of the very very very best tungsten deposits for example is in uh right at the border of the Yukon and uh and the Northwest Territories uh people who follow this will know which company I'm talking about but I'm I'm not going to give it away uh but it's a very well-run very well run company that you know good name and uh you know we have that then you you know then we get into the rare earth side of it you know the rare earth you know for the magnets you
know it's those 17 Rare Earth minerals on or elements I'm sorry 17 Rare Earth elements on the periodic table and they have all the the secret to them is the electron structure of the atom it's there there's a thing called an F orbital on the outside and the F orbital has all sorts of room for electrons and those electrons do absolute magic in terms of magnetism phosphorescence electronic properties uh and other physical properties I the physicists call it field effects and um who who
dominates that The Rare Earth space well China you know because they are they are the low price point of everything they have killed profitability in that whole sector all for the sake of coming up with you know being the guys to go to for the material you know they've made it so economically unattractive for anybody else to even try to compete against them I mean even though people in the west do try to compete against them we have some names you know uh but but they control they control China
controls the price points on this stuff and you know the the uh The Rare Earth elements are absolutely critical for you for strong permanent magnets magnet are the you know they're the key to not just electric cars but I mean even if you have a gasoline powered car out there you know this the little Motors that rais and lower the windows move your seat around raise and lower the steering wheel all that stuff all those little Motors uh have strong permanent magnets in them or if you have a hearing aid or
or if you have uh what what earbuds you know that you know you walk down the street oh listening to my music you know walking down the street those little earbuds you they got they got strong magnets in them and um no no Rare Earth you you got no earbuds you got no hearing aid you got no electric motors in your car can't windshield wipers won't work you know uh let alone the EVS you know where you can go from zero to 60 in you know two and a half seconds or something whatever they whatever they're
advertising so uh the like I said the flip side of tariffs is that you know that that somebody else in this world not the United States of America certainly not Donald Trump controls certain you know critical materials and they're called critical materials for a reason because they're critical uh and uh you say well you know well can't we mine them and do it ourselves yeah but it's just it takes forever to do it I mean this is I on my desk right here I just I didn't know you were going to ask
this but I always have this this is a crystal of monazite beautiful Crystal frankly I would never throw this into the crusher because it's Crystal graphically beautiful and i' probably get 500 bucks for it at the Tucson jam and mineral show um but this monazite is one of the most common ores of uh you know for to to get rare earth from and uh and so uh you know where where do we get monazite from well you can find it around the world but it's in Mineral Sands I mean there's a lot in South
America Africa uh you know Russia you know I mean there there's there's some in the US you know but uh not you know not enough um tell you what I'm gonna I'm G give your viewers one last sort of you know good good deal here if you're looking for a company that that's just in the right space you know for for something like that uh look for Energy Fuels company Energy Fuels you uu for use um and they're they you know they're they're they operate different areas but
uh they have a facility in Blanding Utah which is you go to Utah in like the southeast corner like near the Four Corners region they have a facility that processes uranium uranium ore that's always good nothing wrong with uranium and they can pull vadium out of it vadium is a steel alloying agent and then they have a circuit for um rearers and they can take monoy not that I would ever throw like I said I would never give them this Crystal to throw in the crush Crusher they use monoy sand which
they buy from other places but it's a really well-run company um and uh if you just want to have a nice Hip Pocket play for you know for uranium and rear some badium thrown in there Energy Fuels I'll give that one away it's one of my f one of my favorite companies really well-run company wonderful management great great people um the technical skills at the uh at the plant level are fabulous I mean I I had a tour there from a young guy who's a chemical engineer from BYU and you know we spent all afternoon just
talking talking chemistry and you talking metal Argy at the end I said oh man you are a National Asset you know drive carefully you know and he he smiled so you there there there's hope out there you know don't don't don't give up hope it but you know in terms of many things the United States has Let its economy its industrial economy run down really really badly over many many years many decades generational multigenerational and it it tells you that there's a political process in the
country you know I mean that's you know beyond our discussion here today but um you know and and then Along Comes Trump and he points it out and everybody hates hates him for it so it's like you okay whatever um you know if if we kept going the way we were going you know we we'd already be you know fly through the air off a cliff you know but uh um you know at least we're we're trying we're trying to steer the car away from the edge of the cliff you know so yeah yeah and
hopefully that is possible thank you for going into the critical mineralist angle I think it's is really interesting and it does tie into a lot of the things we've been talking about today and I never knew that monite could be so so beautiful so I like the show int tell as well oh I love doing show in tell yeah yeah yeah very nice it's it's a very it's amazing what um the you know those little atams do when they decide to line up you know what's the social life of Adams you know how do they how do they
join with each other and bond with each other they have these little crystalographic uh uh features about them and you know so anybody out there who's looking for something to do uh for their kids or their grandkids or something you know uh tell them to study chemistry you know take some geology courses minology course you know kind of if you if you understand stuff like this you probably have a job for the rest of your life you know yeah I think very true so I will I will let you go but before I do any any
final thoughts that you would want to share with investors I know we've covered quite quite a bit of ground well you know the takeaway point is that you know the the dollar is in big trouble uh you know we have Legacy inflation and uh the the US dollar has really been mismanaged by the people who you know have control over it uh sanctions against Russia basically convinced you know taught Russia how to live outside of the dollar uh the rest of the world's looking at Russia saying well if you know they they can live
outside the dollar so can we uh we could wake up one morning we everybody you me everybody we could wake up one morning to a currency crisis uh we mentioned earlier that you know visiting Fort Knox some there there better be some gold in Fort Knox because if there isn't that that is that will absolutely deflate you know confidence in uh in the US in the US dollar the US government um so while the Titans Clash you know in in in in their own big way you know we out here and you know is what F Scott Fitzgerald
called the dark the dark uh the dark fields of the Republic uh you just have to live our life you know so live your life look out after yourself look after your family you know get some gold get some silver you know invest in you know some good mines and Miners and oil companies with oil in the ground and and take it from there okay I think that's a very nice note to wrap up on so thank you so much for coming on to go through this this pretty wide ranging discussion although I feel like there's still a lot
to say but we'll we'll cover that next time hopefully next time hopefully absolutely thank you of course and once again I'm Charlotte McLoud with investing.com and this is Byron King with Paradigm Press thank you for watching if you like this video make sure you hit the like button and subscribe to our Channel we'd also love to hear your thoughts so leave us a comment below [Music]
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