[Music] I'm Charlotte Mloud with investingnews.com and here today with me is Dond Durret of Goldstock data.com. Thank you so much for being here. Great to have you once again. >> Yeah, Chara, we've done a few of these. So, yeah, it's good to be back. >> Really good to be catching up with you. I was looking back and our last conversation was all the way in January. So, a lot has happened since then. Just looking at that conversation, we were still talking about was gold going to
get to 3,200 to 3,400 in 2025, silver to that $45 to $65 range. So, of course, both of the metals have reached those points now. And it feels to me like this precious metals bull market is starting to unfold faster maybe than many people expected it to. So, wanted to start there, get your take on what we're seeing unfold and maybe why it's it's going quicker than people might have thought. >> Um, yeah. So, I've always thought this is was the outcome. Um, you know, I've
received a lot of push back from people because, um, I've always been kind of a The reason I'm in this, the reason why I've always got into gold and silver is because my belief is that gold and silver are going to benefit when the US economy or the US government, the US bond market basically kind of faces um, its ultimate outcome, which is kind of bankruptcy. Um, and so I've always projected out in the future, looked at high gold prices, high silver prices. I think I'm the only
person that really does this. Um, and the reason why is because that's my expectation. I mean, that's why I got into this. My expectation has always been $100 plus silver, $5,000 plus gold. And now we're here. And then like people are like, they were always making fun of me. You can't use $100 silver. There's no way we're ever going to get to $100 silver. Now we're at 50. Today we're we were 53 last night, we're 52 today. Um spot 5133 and now we're you know we're not that
far away from 100. So now it's like um so people are starting to come back coming around to my way of thinking to start thinking in terms of future gold prices, future silver prices. Um, so where we're at at today is kind of on the road to kind of my thesis and my thesis is that you can't governments cannot, this is goes back to Bon Mises in the 1950s. He basically said that there's no free lunch for governments that they can't just print money and think that that there's no
ramifications. He he basically said there's no free lunch. If you create a debt, you have to pay it back or else there's only you only have two choices. You you create the bubble. If you and then it either blows up or you pay it back and I actually came to that belief before I heard of races. Um so I' I've been into this since late 80s. I I I basically have recognized what Reagan was doing when George Bush senior said that, you know, this is voodoo economics because what Reagan did when he for when
he was in office for eight years is he used Keynesian economics during growth. So growth started in 1982 and Reagan just he's like, "Hey, this is working great. Let's just keep doing this Keynesian economic stuff. Let's just keep spending money and it'll just pump the economy." Well, yeah, it does pump the economy, but when Reagan came into office, we had less than a trillion dollars in debt, less than$1 trillion. He left office, it was 2.7. And he's like, and we and ever since then, Reagan
showed politicians that if you print money, it works. It's great for the economy, but it's dangerous because it creates a bubble. And that's all we've been doing. And and then so Bush Senior said, "That's voodoo economics." and N. Gendrich he was the head of the house and he created this contractor of America in the early 1990s and basically and he agreed with Buren and said that's voodoo economics. You we we can't just spend money when we're growing the economy. We need to have a
Gringer basically said we need to have a balanced budget if the economy is growing. Now you can have a deficit. Kane Kane's in economics should only be used when you have a recession. But if the economy is growing, we want a balanced budget. And so he and so get rich created this contract with America. And the whole the foundation of it was a balanced budget. And he did it. He balanced the budget in '989. And then everything blew up in 992000 where the dot bubble was. And since then all we've done is add debt. So we went
back to the Reagan way. Um, and the irony is that in the 1990s I was buying go a gold mutual fund. Every month I was putting $500 in it when the price of gold was $250 and and we weren't doing this spending. It's like Don, what are you doing? What are you doing? This is nuts. But no, I I basically knew that the what what's going to happen here and that and which is eventually the government is going to print money and try to live on debt. uh because um it's it's kind of the natural outlet
for politicians because politicians want to get elected and you you just saw with the with the big beautiful bill with with Trump. He he he didn't he he he didn't want to have a $2 trillion deficit, but politically he had no choice because he you know he didn't have the votes to to basically balance the budget. He didn't have the votes to cut the cut any spending. I mean, so all he could do was increase spending. I mean, that's the way of the of Washington today. And that's been the
way of Washington um since 9/11. I mean, it it's just debt the debt exploded from around 5 trillion in 2000 to 37 trillion today. We've been increasing debt at 8%. And GDP has been increasing average on four at four. So we've been doubling the debt and that's just a recipe for disaster and that's the reason gold is up. The gold is up for only one reason and it's and people you know disagree with me because they can't really wrap their head around it because but it's
basically the US government bond market because the US economy is the largest economy in the world. It's about 23 24% of global GDP and so it's kind of the you know the big gorilla on the on the global scale and it it has this huge impact and our standard of living is high and so we import all all these goods and so our economy is literally kind of the lifeblood of the global economy. Um, China's starting to catch up, but I believe that the bond market is the heart. It's the It's the heartbeat of
the economy because we live on debt. Without Without that $2 trillion deficit, we wouldn't, you know, the economy would be in a recession right now. GDP is basically a false indicator because we count the GDP. If you subtract out that $2 trillion, we'd be we would have a we'd be in a recession right now. So, it's all about the bond market and how long the bond market can stay stable. And so, what's happening is the global the rest of the world is slowly steadily kind of moving away from our bonds which
we we need foreign money. We can't we can't do this all on our own. The the we cannot um pay for our debt internally 100%. we're dependent on foreigners and so foreigners are slowly pulling back and so that's the reason why gold's going up. So they're transitioning away from treasuries and they're converting those and selling those which are dollars and buying gold. So they're the reserves are are turning more into gold and gold that's why gold's going higher.
But the reason why they're doing it is because this is a they see what's coming. It's a train wreck if you will. The US has to get its financial house in order, but it can't. There's no there's no way to do it. The only way to do it is for the whole thing to blow up. And that's why gold's going high. That's why I own gold and silver miners. And that's why this what's happening today is ear we're still early innings and the gold and silver mining stocks. And it the the
thing that really reveals how early we are is that the stock market is only 2% from an all-time high. And what in the world is the stock market doing at an all-time high? And and gold's at an all-time high. Those are antagonistic. Gold is supposed to be a hedge against uncertainty. The stock market is supposed to show basically confidence. And so if you have an all-time high, people should be confident. Everything's fine. We don't need this. But people are not confident. People have said this is the the most
scary bull market ever. You know, it's nobody really believes in it, right? And that's why it's like wait. So the question is who's telling the truth? Is the stock market telling the truth at an all-time high or is it gold that's telling the truth? Well, it's pretty obvious that gold's the one telling the truth. And so the other thing is gold is global in nature. It's a it's a global commodity priced globally where the US stock market is local. It's local to the US. And so it's
hard for anybody to get their hands around gold and say and try to control the price. And I think that gold turned into a physical market when it got above $2,000. And so now the banksters can't control gold anymore. And so gold now is a physical market because the central banks are buying it. And and so it's turned into a physical market. Now silver hasn't turned into a physical market, but I think it might have when it crossed 40 because it never went back and retested 40. Gold never retested
2,000. Never retested 3,000. Never hasn't ret has it retested 4,000. I don't know. But so that's when you that's when you know you're in a physical market is you don't get these deep corrections. And so I think silver might have done that. But so we we talked about my targets back in January and so I had a target of 45 to 65 on silver and that's we we're above the 45. My gold target was 3,400 to 3500. We're not even we blew through that. Who who would have thought that gold would go to
4,000 this year? I sure didn't. Um, it's pretty mind-blowing, but that is showing you that we're getting closer and closer to this bond failure that I've always thought was going to happen. >> Lots of directions for us to go in there. And I want to keep looking at the bond market angle because I think that's really important. I know timing, we just said how difficult it is to time things, but the rug is going to be pulled out from under the bond market at some point. any thoughts on when that could
be or anything further you'd say on what the trigger for that could be? >> The trigger is very obvious and that's the stock market. So the stock market a lot of people say the stock market is the economy. So when the stock when the we've been in a 15-year plus bull market in in the stock market some people say no it reset in reset itself in 20 in 2020. Well, that's that's baloney because if it reset itself, why did the stock market go up? You you can't have a recession in the stock market not go
down. So there was no reset in 2020. Um and so we haven't had a recession um since 2008 and it ended in June of 2009. So we're 15 years plus into this. And so the trigger is when the recession begins. And so when that recession begins, you're going to have a lot of bankruptcies. you're going to have a lot of people um lose their jobs and you're going to have a lot of um you know it's it's it that is the the rugpool and so at that point the dollar I think the dollar will collapse and like right now
it's at 98 99 little bit below 99 and I think it'll I thought it was going to end the year below 95 it looks like it's it won't but you know we maybe we'll see 97 but I think next year is when the dollar really dumps. So, I think we we're going to see low 90s next year and and that's just the first leg down, if you will. I think I think we're heading to to a a crash in the dollar, if you will. And so, and so when let me I'll explain why the dollar is going to
collapse here. Is the stock market is about $63 trillion total stock market value in the United States. And about 20% of that is foreign money. So it's about 12 million, something like that. Um $12 million somewhere of foreign money. Well, that foreign money is is basically hot money. They're here only for one reason. They're not here because they like the United States. They're here to make money. So it's hot money. It's like if if you go into recession, we're leaving. See you later. Have fun.
We're here to make money. You're not making it. So if they lose confidence in the US economy, they're leaving. So that's $12 trillion. It's a lot of money. That's a lot of hot money sitting there. The other hot money is the boomers. The boomers who have most of the money in this country have not left the have not left the stock market. They're supposed to be out. They're like, you know, you turn 65, 70,75, you're supposed to be out of the stock market. But guess what?
They're not. The boomers, they're just as invested today than when they were 50. So that's hot money, too. So you got that's probably another 12 trillion. So you got about a third of the stock market is like hot money. But and so all you need is a crash where I think once you get below 5,500 you could really see a big it could just really start unraveling if you will. And what happened when you had that unraveling in Japan in 1989 is once it unraveled it never came back. And the reason why it
never came back is because of the hot money. In that case, the hot money was foreign money. And the foreign money said, "See you, Japan, it was fun, but we're out of here." And that money never never went back. So that that's what'll happen to the stock market. And and that's the rugpull. And that's when the bond market gets really weak because at that point, the economy, so the stock, like I said, the stock market is kind of the economy, right? So the stock market
crashes, you're going to have a lot of layoffs. There's not going to be, you know, liquidity problems because banks aren't going to be making loans. And so that's when the bond market starts to become fragile. And simultaneous to that, this is where it all breaks down is the US government at that time will need because the way that the the budget is set up when you have a recession, the US government is forced to spend more money and and you can see it. Every time there's a recession, they have to
because they have to help the states out because the states start having problems with their budgets and the more money starts flowing to the states. Um, and so basically the budget deficit goes up when you have a recession. And so we're at 2 trillion right now. You can imagine the pressure on the bond market if we get to 2.53 trillion. So the pressure on the bond market will increase and then foreigners then interest rates will start going up on the long end and then foreigners will start dumping their
bonds and it'll create basically a negative feedback loop. Higher rates, more debt, more budget deficits. It's it's kind of a negative loop and that's when you know we'll see how gold goes. But I think gold's going to go $78,000 before they have to reset. And they will have to reset because they'll have they'll only have two choices. Choice number one is to destroy the dollar which through inflation through printing money. But if you do that, you just destroy the dollar, you
destroy the economy. And they're know they're going to know that and they're smarter than that. So, they're going to go, "Okay, we got to we got to do a reset." And and that's what they'll do. And and when they do the reset, basically what they'll do is they'll devalue the dollar, which pushes gold higher. And then I think they'll devalue it by about 30%. 30 35%. So, you'll wake up one day and your bank account will have 100,000 and it'll have 70,000. It's
all it'll be worth. And I and I think what they'll do is I think they'll issue a new currency. And when they do that, they'll fix the Euro dollar problem. So the Euro dollar problem is that Euro dollars are dollars outside the United States that the US government has no control over. We don't create those dollars. We have nothing to do with them. But they can come back into our country. Um and so it's a mess. The the Euro dollars, there's actually more dollars outside the United States than
inside because banks, foreign banks can make loans in US dollars and and basically have to get paid back in dollars. Um and so that's basically a creation. If you make a loan in dollars, you're creating dollars. And so we need to get a control of that. So what they'll do is they'll orphan those. They'll create a new dollar and they'll say, "Okay, the new dollar is good in the United States. Those old dollars, you know, you you you know, okay, if you bring them back to
the US, we're going to tax you." They'll basically tax those. Okay, you want your you want these new dollars, we'll put a 25% tax on it. Bring them on back, right? But we're all but the only people who can bring them back is legitimate businesses, right? So all anybody any you know anybody has illegitimate businesses internationally are completely screwed and so all those euro dollars will shrink in value and basically will rugpool the world if you will. So that's that's my vision. That's
what I think is going to happen. >> It really does sound like it's a mess as you're saying but can see how everything connects and how that would lead to an even higher gold price than we have right now. I also wanted to get into silver specific factors with you because there's been a lot of talk about what's happening with silver right now. Talking about a liquidity squeeze over in the London market and I'm wondering if you can lay out what's happening there. Talk
about what you're seeing. >> Well, according to the reports, um the LBMA is is very short inventory of silver. Now, you know, all we have is reports, right? We don't actually have, you know, the actual facts, but I've always said that once silver gets above 45 that you're going to start to have shortages of silver. And the reason why is because silver's a gifing good. Meaning that the higher it goes, the more valuable it becomes. Everybody wants it. Nobody cares at $30 silver,
20, nobody cares. 30, nobody cares. But once it gets to 45,50, suddenly people start lining up in Australia. you know, there's this ABC bullion in and I think it's Melbourne and every day people are lining up to buy, you know, to buy gold and silver and because it's basically a gifing good. Oh, I want it now. It's 50 bucks. Wow, it's valuable. And so, and I said, you know, once you get there, for instance, sub 40, there was like 8 7 8 9 to one sellers of silver versus buyers
at local coin shops. And I said, "That'll completely flip." You know, once you get above $45 silver, it'll completely flip where you have seven, eight sellers, buyers to three three sellers. And that's exactly what what we're seeing. And it that will continue. The given good thing will continue. You'll continue to get more people to come in to buy. I've said this that you the people that are going to buy, especially silver. There'll be more people that buy silver than currently
own silver. Because the people, everybody that's going to be buying it, they didn't even know when when this year started, they didn't even know they were going to buy silver. But they're like, I think I better. So, the first thing they're going to do is they're I want to buy some gold. Well, do I have $4,000? I don't have $4,000 to buy a one buy a coin. I think I better buy some silver. Right? So, that see that's the reason silver um is used as a proxy to gold. And so
that's when silver becomes a monetary metal. Um when it gets at a certain point and it becomes a gift and good and you know everybody wants it because it be it's more valuable. Um more people are going to want to buy silver at 60 and 70 than they do at 50 which is ironic. Um and and it's going higher. I mean that's the bottom line. Um, but it's more about security and it's more about um gold than it is about silver. Silver is just along for the ride. Again, it's a proxy
to gold. It's people people don't really want silver. They want gold, but they can't afford gold, so they buy silver. Um, and then it currently silver has leverage to gold about 2 to one. Um, so if you buy silver right now, you're basically buying gold at half off. So, but that'll turn. So, once that GSR squeezes, then they'll be kind of even at that point. But still, people will still be buy silver then. But right now, I think you want to buy silver because you get a 2:1 edge and then you can if
you if you actually want gold, you can convert it into gold later. Wait till wait till that 2:1. Wait till silver outperforms at 2 to1 and then flip it and sell your silver and buy the gold. Um, but I've I think we're going to see shortages. Um, I think I've always thought that it it would unfold in in a certain way. So, the first thing to go is going to be your local local silver where you can't find it locally. You're forget about buying at your local coin shop. You they don't have any, right?
That's the first thing to go. The second thing to go is your online inventory, your online um exchanges like Appmex and SD Bullion. Those will run out of silver. And then after that, the next thing to go will be the 1,000 ounce bars on the wholesale level because those those 10,000 ounce bars that is what they use to to create everything, to create the coins, to create the bars. So everything is and they're not exactly 1,000 ounces. They're about 75 lb, but they're they're they can't make them
exact. So, um they're they're approximately 70 75 lbs each. So, they're very very heavy. Um those they're like bricks, right? Those those will be once you have a shortage of those and some people think it's not going to happen. You're not going to have a shortage of thousand ounce bars, but I think we will. And so once you have a shortage of those, I think we'll get to $100 silver fairly quickly. And are we are we seeing any signs of shortages at this point or or is that
still all to come? >> No. Yeah. The only place you could say we're seeing it is the LBMA. We're not seeing it at Comx yet. They have like 500 million ounces available for delivery. I think they have a lot. So, we're not seeing it at Comx yet, but that could shrink really, really quickly because the ComX is actually an outlet for where you can buy silver. So if the LBMA doesn't have any like that's the first place it's kind of running out that's an over the counter market. We
just go buy it. The LBMA you have to actually do a future contract and take delivery. I comx you have to take delivery from a future contract. But if you're a corporation and you need silver, you can go and buy that future contract and take delivery. And so that so those are your two outlets. And so we'll see we we can keep an eye on on that inventory, but right now they have plenty. Um, so we're early innings here. I mean, for me, we still haven't seen I always said that you need like three
different things to happen before you get a bull market in the miners. So, so the first thing you got to have a bull market in gold, which we got in I I would say in 2020, December 2019, and then 2020, I would say that's when gold really kind of broke out. And then silver, I think the silver mark bull market really started in August when it went over 40. You can make an argument that, you know, when it broke out in 2020 when it went from 1850 to 30, you could call you could say that it broke
out there at the same time as gold. But when it and but you know when it August is when it when things really really turned for silver when I basically said okay we got a bull market here. Um and then for silver I for gold I actually thought that it was in March early April of 24. That's when the bull market in gold and the miners really kind of took off and never looked back. I remember um I think it was like the first week of April I basically said we're not going to have a correction in gold. We don't
have to worry about a correction in gold. That that really was kind of the breakout for me. Um and so it was like February um I would say March March 24 for gold and then August um this year 25 um for for silver. Um, and then the third thing the the the well actually there was two more. There's there's four. The this the third one is the HUI. So the HUI um breakout was it was kind of at 350 365 but it was acting kind of strange and I I I I really didn't see um um a level where I really felt like okay this
thing has broken out. it's not going to correct. Um, and and it that really I mean we had to get significantly like above 500. So we're like six we're 642 today. We had to get um kind of well above 365 like above 500 to where I was starting to get comfortable that we're not going to have a correction. But but the final the the final thing that hasn't happened yet. So we're still waiting. So th those are like little battles that we had to win as investors. We we needed to get above
certain levels where we were winning and we were still fighting battles, but those are kind of the the battles that we won that we're kind of in the clear now that now now a bull market is starting and now we're just pl now we're just taking it to the top and and for me the top in the HUI is is 1,500 to 2,000. So, we were at 200. February 24, we were at 200 and now we're at 600, 625. So, we're up 200%. I mean, we've really come off of that bottom quite a bit, but but we still
haven't gotten to kind of blue sky. We're still b we're still fighting battles, which is amazing. Um and and it's kind of early innings still at 600. So, I I think, you know, we're going to go like if you we're at 500, we're like double to 1,000 and then and then double again to 2,000. I think that's what's going to happen. But the final thing that we're waiting for where we're kind of in the clear, if you will, is the S&P 500. So, the S&P 500, when the S&P 500
is where it's at, like an all-time high, a lot of investors don't care about gold and silver because these are speculation assets. So, it's like, I'm not going to speculate if I'm making, you know, so we were up 25% in 24 or 23 27% in in 20 um 4 and then this year we're up 13. So people, they're like, if if I'm making that kind of money, um, I'm going to stay in it. I'm I I have no interest in buying gold mining stocks. I'm not going to go buy a speculation. I
don't care if Newmont's up 100%. I'm not going to do it. So, Wall Street is still in the mindset that they don't need to own these mining stocks. And so that's the final shooting drop is what if you go back and you look at a chart and you you overlay the HUI with the S&P 500 from 2000 to 2011 the the S&P was pretty much flat for that whole decade whereas and the HUI was like to the moon kind of you know up up and so what happened during that decade this also happened in the 1970s
by the way is that the stock market was was lethargic And so people were looking for yield. They were looking for returns. And guess what was working? The miners were working. And so the and the miners are working right now. So if the miners are working and the stock market goes down, guess where the money is going to rotate to? It's going to rotate into the miners. So that's the last shoe to drop. So as investors in gold and silver mining stocks, I'm sitting here waiting for to win that final battle. and all
all I need I need the stock market to go down um say sub 5,000 and just stay down for at least 3 months ideally 6 months but these bare markets they usually last 5 to 10 years bare markets are long bare markets are quite common I mean if you look at history I mean when we crashed in 1929 we didn't go we didn't get an all-time high until it was either the late 50s early 60s it was a long time before we returned and then we and then we then we had the long correction again in the 70s. We had a bare market in the
70s and then we had the another bare market in the 2000s that lasted 10 plus years. So long bare markets are quite common and that's what I'm expecting to happen. I'm expecting when this stock market finally does roll over, I'm expecting a crash. So say all the way down to 4,000. So, we're currently at 6,000. So, that's about 30%. Um, it's at least 30. Look, I'm thinking it's going to be 40 45. I I don't think we'll get a 50% correction, but I think um 40 is
definitely in play here. 30 to 40. And then when that happens, that's basically a crash. And when that happens, I'm not expecting a bounce. And so, if you don't get a bounce, that creates a fear trade. So you you crash crash crash crash crash and then you you you go down there and you stay down there. At that point, nobody wants in and everybody's leaving. They're leaving and they're not coming back. That is the scenario that we're waiting for as gold silver investors.
That's the scenario where we get to an HU of 2000. That's what I'm waiting for. And that leads, I think, nicely into another point that I wanted to touch on, which is your approach to the gold and silver stocks right now. I know you've got an incredible amount of data on your website, and you write pretty frequently on X about what your strategy is. So, of course, every person is is different, but I'm wondering how you're approaching it right now. I know pretty recently you
posted a list of buy the dips type of stocks. What are what are you doing right now when it comes to the equities? Well, yeah, that that that's a complex question. I mean, I I could spend 30 minutes answering that question. How I approach this, right? Um because I I analyze each stock differently, you know, an explorer, a developer, producer, right? So, I mean, you have to go into the detail of each one of how how how you analyze each one. We we don't want to do that because that take forever, right? So, I think what we'll
we'll focus in on here is what I'm currently doing, right? What are you currently doing? So, I my portfolio is pretty much finished, if you will. I've been creating it since 2004. So, I I'm I'm pretty much done um adding stocks. Um so, what I've done um so the stock market, the HU is like at 600, over 600. So, I'm not really looking um to to to buy new stocks, if you will. Um if I find one I like, I I tend to buy it. So, if I find um what I look for something like right now, I'm
like I'm looking for 10 baggers. So, if I find a um anything that's like a 10 bagger or better that's really really juicy, then I tend to buy it. But I analyze these stocks pretty um you know, all the time. So, I'm pretty much up to date with everything. Every once in a while, a new one new company will come on and you know, I'll analyze it. you know, every once in a while. I remember I mean like recently I I did an I looked at there we we interviewed the CEO of Rua Gold and I thought it was an
exploration story and once I found a developer story I just kind of started laughing because I knew immediately I had to buy it because that's just me. It's like oh no oh my goodness you're a timbagger I got to buy you know so but there there isn't very many of those left. So, so what I'm doing now is I sort my portfolio by the current value and they've all been ripping higher, right? So, I so I I sort it by and then I go down to like my minimum. So, I have I have something that was like a full
allocation what I know which is basically 1% of my total cost basis. And I know and so I'll scroll down the list and once I get below that level, I'll start looking for stocks that I like that don't have a full allocation. and then I'll write them down. I'll write them down and I'll write down how much I have and that becomes my buy the dip list. And so I've been I posted that. It's like seven stocks. There like seven stocks that are I don't have a full allocation on that
I'd like to. So that's kind of what I'm doing. I'm I'm trying to find um stocks that I I can add to when we do get this dip, but I'm not going to I'm not going to buy those until we get a crash. So, so like sub 5,500. Now, I don't know when um when the market when gold's going to bounce. Um last time, um I forget when um uh gold bounced. I think it was about 5200 somewhere in there. Um but gold um will start to get a bid. So, the stock market will go down, down, down. At a certain
point, gold will get a bid, if you will. So we we have to keep an eye on so they'll both go down together but at a certain point gold will decouple and it'll get a bid and it will it'll refuse to go any lower and that's what you want to look for. So you have to so it's kind of it's so for me I mean if if I buy it so say I won't buy anything above 5500. So if the S&P gets below 5500 I'll have to decide what gold is doing. you know, has gold gotten a bid yet? Is
gold going lower? Because I might be want to be patient and wait to get sub 5,000. Um, but the one thing I like to do, I I like to buy to the bottom. So, I might buy at 5,500 and then wait, we go sub 5,000, buy some more. We go sub4,500, buy some more. But I I think this is going to be the last buying opportunity when the stock this is because this is the stock market crash. And so this is the last time that gold is really going to be exposed to downward selling pressure because I think I think once this once this is
over everybody's going to realize, oh my goodness, I need some gold. That I mean that's that's going to be the shock to everybody. Everybody that doesn't own gold, remember earlier I told you that people that are going to buy gold and silver, they don't even know they're going to buy it. This is when they're going to buy it. when they when they basically go oh my goodness because people have a normaly bias and they think that the US economy is basically you know this powerhouse that just
always readjusts itself and just re reinvents itself and just goes higher they don't realize that this is um a paradigm shift that the US has been the global hedgemon since 1945 and it's getting ready to lose that it's this is this is really bad go with gold at this price. You should be afraid. You're like, "What is gold doing here? Something's wrong. There's something wrong." And absolutely something wrong. This is a This is a paradigm shift. I'm not happy about it at all. It's like I
mean, we're literally losing the losing our country, which is is a I mean, this has been a beautiful country and we're we're we're losing it. I mean, first, you know, we lost it our mainstream media. We kind of lost that and then we lost our political system and now we're going to lose our economic system. It's like it's basically three strikes, you're out scenario. And everybody's going to start to realize that the people that haven't yet and they're
going to that's when gold is is really going to get a bid. That's when, you know, like right now we're over 4,000. We'll be over 5,000. It won't be very long. Um I don't know when when people when this will really start to hit home. 5500 6,500 somewhere in there. It's is it'll start to hit home. Okay. 4,000 isn't high. Is 5,500 high? Is 6,500 high? When do you when do you get the get the message? When when did you figure it out that something's wrong, right? And and that's that that's you
know, I figured it out a long time ago. And it's and more and more people are figuring it out every day. And and and like I said, the higher gold goes, the more people figure it out. Um and it's like, no, no, no. This is this is America. We we always we always win. We're the winners, you know, right? And so, you know, that's how it used to be. I'm so I I I'm not happy about losing our country. I'm not happy about it. But that's that's the eventual outcome. We did it
to ourselves. So now, I mean, all we're doing now is playing it out. I I wrote a book called The Path Forward that kind of shows you this is where we're going, people. This is the path forward. It's not pretty. Um this is this is basically America has hit a place where the the only answer is change. We can't we you know we've hit the Einstein moment where if you keep doing the same thing over and over it's insanity. We've hit the Einstein moment and people have people are in denial
that we've hit the Einstein moment. But soon and so the first thing the first thing will happen will be the economy falls rain. The second thing to happen well will be the economy not getting back on its feet. And then the third thing to happen will be states going their own way. It's ABC. I mean it's clockwork. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, it is it is not pleasant as you said, but this is what you see playing out. And I wanted to add I think one more point into the topics we're discussing today and that is
crypto. because you're one of the relatively few people who I speak to who's involved in precious metals and cryptocurrencies and I bring it up partially because we had that pretty big crash over the weekend. I think there's been some recovery there, but I just wanted to let you explain how you are having cryptocurrencies play into what you're doing right now in terms of your strategy. >> Yeah. Um I was very lucky. Uh I I actually was a when I got out of college, I actually was a full-time
programmer first 5 years of my career. So I kind of understood programming and so I didn't do a deep dive on it until 2016 and I thought it was there's no way you can you can't create private money. That's the way I looked at Bitcoin. I looked at as private money. You can't create private money. The government won't allow it. And so but it went to $1,000 and that got my attention. So I was ignoring it. Say this is this is Mickey Mouse stuff, right? Then it went to $1,000 in 2016 and I went, "What?"
And that got my attention. And then it crashed to 100. And I laughed. Ah, it's going to zero. That's all fake money, right? And then it started trending up. And I'm going, "Isn't that supposed to go to zero, you know, 250, 300, 350." So it got back to 400. And I'm like, "Okay, it's timed on." So I went and I did a deep dive. And I spent hours and hours looking at the code on how it does a transaction. And I was I it blew my mind because that's how they solved the general's
dilemma was how they do a transaction, how they prevent a double spend. And the way they did it is it was so elegant. It was actually an invention. You know, that's that's they solved it through the blockchain. So they invented the blockchain. Bitcoin invented the blockchain. And people don't realize how significant that is. They think, "Oh, this is just, you know, there's nothing back in it." They don't realize that software can have value. The fact that their the network said, "So the f so the
first thing was I I I looked at it. I l how elegant the code was. That that kind of kind of blew my mind. It's highly highly really well-ritten code. Very elegant. The other thing is it's self-correcting. It's like who writes code that's self-correcting? It's like they call it the honey badger. It's like good luck trying to, you know, bring it down, right? It's been up like 99.8% since it went up. It's the most secure network on the planet that has no value. It be like it Yes, it does. There's some
value there. And then the third thing that the reason why I I basically after I did my deep dive was the fact that it has this having every four years. So I'm like the having that just makes it if it all it has to do is survive. If it just survives every four years the supply just gets cut in half. The daily supply gets cut in half. So it's got like this upward pressure on the price and you can't kill it. There's no way. And I tried to figure out a way how to turn the dang thing off. There's you can't
you can't turn it off. It's not like that software they created with that tour software. Remember when they this music sharing the government just turned it off, right? you can't turn this off. So I'm like, okay, Don, you can't turn it off. It's the code is self-correcting. You can't change the code. You need 51% to agree to change the code and it has upward price pressure. I'm like, okay, but Don, what gives it value? You know, what gives it value? I'm like,
well, it's not really money. I mean, you can't spend it. It's too valuable. And we learned that through the pizza thing. I mean, the guy that bought that pizza would be a billionaire today if he wouldn't have bought the pizza. So, you can't spend it. You got to hodddle it. It's like, okay, then where's the value? I'm thinking, you know, where's where's the value here? So, Bitcoin basically, it's going to have by these are all my ideas that I came up with, by the way.
Bitcoin is going to have what I thought was three phases. So phase one is adoption by the retail like you know the basically the punk rock guys. They're just out there the Max Kaisers of the world. Those are the guys. That's phase one. It's just you know it's just hard you know it's like just we're going to collect it. Screw the you know screw the screw the man or whatever kind of thing. Right? That's phase one. And then if they were if they can get it to a certain level and I thought that would
be about $50,000. So if they can just get it to 50,000 if they can get it up that high at that point the institutions will say okay I want some of this too. That's phase two. So it's adoption. So first one is retail adoption. Second one is re is institutional adoption which I think began about 50,000. Well that will go somewhere up to about $500,000 somewhere. And that's when you get saturation. Somewhere, you know, 500,000 to a million dollars is when you get institutional adoption where you get
saturation where everybody that wants Bitcoin owns Bitcoin. So, so you're not going to be able to stop phase one and phase two. So, as far as like what gives Bitcoin value, what gives it value is it's basically a collectible. And so, right now, we're just collecting it. You know, we're collecting it and hodling it. It's like taking a Wayne Gretzky rookie card and digitizing it and giving everybody value and you can prove ownership. Okay, I'll take give me a little bit of Wayne Gretzky. I know it's
going to go up in value. It's it's kind of like that. It's kind of a collectible where you can have proof of ownership. Plus, it's priced 24/7 and you can transfer it. So, that that's kind the value there. Okay. So, then you go through you go through cycle one and cycle two. So, what I'm saying is that you want to hold Bitcoin through cycle one and cycle two and and you don't sell it until the 4-year cycle fails. And again, this is I came up with this idea and amazingly there's no apps out
there. I I tried I asked Grock, is there any app out there that will will show me that Bitcoin um four years ago is high is lower than today's price? That's the four-year cycle. So that's never happened before. So as long as that four fouryear cycle holds, you hold. But once it breaks, you sell. That's hodling. Okay. So now what do I mean by the four-ear cycle is that it's a it's a moving target. So today you look back four years and you see if the price is lower than today. Then you go tomorrow
and you keep looking back four years. Every day you go forward. That is always held. I call it the four four year cycle. So, as long as Bitcoin, and I always tell people, you don't value Bitcoin on 12 months. You don't look back 12 months. You look back 4 years. So, if you buy it today and you hold it for 4 years, you're going to make money. That has always happened. But if it ever fails, if you ever have somebody that that bought Bitcoin that's more than four years ago and they're underwater,
that's when you sell. That's and so that's we already know that. So, I'm just sitting here. So, I'm I'm not going to take profits until that fouryear cycle fails. So that's huddling. Now the third piece this is this is the third piece and this is also when you sell and this is where Michael Sailor's thesis breaks down and the third one is after that saturation occurs you Bitcoin at that point has to prove utility and when it proves when let me stop that when it proves its
utility the way that I think the way that it's going to prove its utility is through collateral. Now, Bitcoin is the ideal collateral. The reason why it's the ideal collateral is because it's priced 24/7 and it's liquid. So, let's say that you go and you buy a car and you don't have to go to the bank. You just go into the dealership and you you have your phone with your Bitcoin wallet and you want to buy it and you go, "Look, um, you know, I want to buy this car." And let's say
the car's $50,000. So, Bitcoin right now is $100,000. So you give them two bitcoins. You put two bitcoins in the smart contract. You transfer it from your wallet into there and they basically let you walk off the wall. They now they have your two bitcoins is worth 200 today um $224,000 and you owe them 50,000. So they got a big, you know, bitcoin would have to crash for them to lose their money. It's almost impossible for them to lose their money. So you got to make payments every month. You got to give them payments and
then interest. and they they're guaranteed their money back because they have the Bitcoin. So let's say they only charge you like 3%. You know, much lower than the 8% cuz you get you're giving them basically perfect collateral, right? So you got 3% interest and you make payments, right? If if Bitcoin drops, say it's at 120. If it drops like below 90, at that point they go, "Oh, you got a margin call. you either you either put some more Bitcoin in there or we're going to take the Bitcoin. You you
decide. So they give you it's basically a margin call. So as long as Bitcoin stays above that level, everything's kosher, right? It's just a margin call. But Bitcoin can do that. So it's like the perfect perfect collateral. So if Bitcoin becomes this m if it kind of replaces treasuries as collateral whatever that can make Bitcoin go up more but not to 20 million like Sailor says but it can go up to 2 million maybe using collateral. Um but the but I don't think hodling will push Bitcoin to 10
million but it could push it to two. Um so there's that but I I have to talk about you you open this up Charlotte. This is a big this is a big subject. You're gonna have to cut me off. You never do. >> You You tell me what you've got on your mind. >> All right. All right. So, now we're going to go to what the real value is in in crypto. It's not Bitcoin. Blockchain has nothing to do with Bitcoin. It's about blockchain technology which evolves, which is all the alts. So the people that say that
crypto is a scam, crypto is going to zero, that is the same thing as as companies back in 1982 were rejecting the PC or in the 19 mid 1990s were rejecting the internet. You're rejecting technology when you reject the the blockchain. Now I'm not talking about Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a is a unique animal. It's first generation. It's first generation crypto and like I said, it's a collectible. What makes Bitcoin so valuable is it's it's secure and it's rare. That's what makes it valuable.
What makes blockchain valuable is the ability to evolve. It's it's it's software. It's technology. So, Ethereum is competing every single day against all these other products. You got Salana, right? You got Cardano, right? You got Sooie. So, you got all of these projects that are competing against each other saying, "Who's going to be the winner here?" And they're all competing not against Bitcoin. They're competing against to create a new financial system basically or not just that's only one
part of it decentralized finance. You also have what's called tokenization which is a form of finance but it's basically a database a way to tokenize to digitize stuff. Well all of these you use cases if you will those are all done on these altcoins. Again nothing to do with Bitcoin but and so those are not going away. those are proliferating. Like all of these stable coins, all of these stable coins, they they don't reside on Bitcoin, not the blockchain. They reside on all of these second and
third generation blockchains. They're very fast and very cheap to transact on. And so those are the future. And so those are what I invest in. I I don't buy Bitcoin anymore. I bought the buy the alts because the alts are evolving. The alts have tons and tons of potential. Bitcoin doesn't have very much use cases. it doesn't have much of a utility whereas these alts they have unbelievable amount of utility um decentralized finance I talked about how you can buy a car if you have some
bitcoin that's huge the other one is stable coins that that's huge but another one that's massive is tokenization so here here's an example this this is the reason why these alts are are going to be worth money right now if you're a private business and let's say your private business is worth $10 million it. You You can't do an IPO on that. It's not 10 million bucks. You're not It's too much money. It's, you know, you're not going to do it, right? But
guess what you can do? You can tokenize it. And and and that's what businesses are going to do. They're basically going to go like, let's say you're a business owner and you know, and it's worth 10 million bucks, but you own it and you get the cash flow, but you're like a private owner. You it's your business, right? you can tokenize that and keep like 25% and then and then give it to IPO it to 75 other people. You keep ownership and you you get a whole bunch of money. Um and so businesses are on
the only thing that's stopping this is regulations. And so once the government allows it, you're going to see businesses, you know, all over all these private businesses are going to tokenize. Um, and then you're gonna have public companies, they they'll stop trading publicly and go private and tokenize their company. So you can you can go private and tokenize it. You're going to see that. Um, but and then you can tokenize things. There's so many different ways. So tokenization that's
coming in a big way. That's all on alts. That's that's the blockchain. So So all these people are like anti- crypto, anti-blockchain. They're they're like businesses basically in 1982 going I don't want that PC. That's kind of my that's how you you kind of look at this. Thanks for letting me ramble forever. >> No, that was a good one. And like I said, it's these are topics we don't get to talk about so much on this channel, but I think it's it's important. So,
thank you for for doing the little rant for us on those. I think it'll be really interesting to see how these things play out. And I think I think we are getting to the end. I will let you go. But before I do, any any final thoughts that you would share with investors right now? It is it is a tricky time and like you said, it's a we're heading to probably even bigger times of change ahead. >> Um yeah. Um so we've had this big run. We got gold up 60% on the year, silver up 77%.
Um GDXJ up 142%. This is year-to date, by the way. 142% year-to date. Pneumont up 143% year to date. GDX 131. Core Mining up 266. So, Kors is at $21, up 266. And I told everybody to buy it when it was at the bottom. Um, my target, my exit price on CORE is 70, but I think it's going to 100. So, it's still a four bagger from here. Um, but my exit is 70 because I got in early, so I'm leaving early. But I think that but my point is that even though these thing these these miners have ripped, I think
they're going a lot higher. Um, so the other point I wanted to make is I mentioned it earlier about the stock market basically rolling over. We don't know what the trigger is going to be. We have no idea. The trigger is unknown. We're waiting. We're there's no data. And this is the reason why Wall Street is so bullish, if you will, because because it isn't obvious that a crash is coming or a correction is coming or a recession is coming. All we can do is anecdotally look at the data, but but
but the data's been like that for months and months and months. So, it's not as if um there's anything obvious. So there's no obvious correction coming, but but I think it it's not very far away. And so my point is, yeah, these these these are all up really really big. They're not going to I do not think for a second that they're going to be giving back large chunks of those gains. Um, I think I and the reason why I don't think we're going to give back large chunks, if you
will, so you don't have to, you know, take profit, get out of the way and wait for the correction and then get back in kind of thing. Um, is that I just don't think they're going to be able to push gold down that much. I I think we're looking at a 20 to 30% correction, you know, in these stocks. So, you got, you know, GDA GDXG up 142%. So, 10% would be 14, 20% 28. So, you know, maybe it goes back to 100% up, but that would be 30% correction, something like that. Um, I should probably look at the the dollar.
It's at 103. So, you know, maybe it goes to $70. That's not the end of the world. And I think that's about I think that's kind of going to be about the worst case. The GDXJ goes down about 70. It might not go down that far. But what I learned because I've been doing this for, you know, 20 plus years is that when you get these cor these deep corrections, if you're in a bull market, they just turn around and go to a higher high. So, you just have to outlast them. But expect a 20 to 30% correction either in
Q4 or Q1 of next year. It's going to happen and and that's kind of when I think the stock market will roll over. And so, I think they'll happen together and that's when we can kind of buy the dip. So, thank you for letting me end it on there. >> Yeah, I think that's a great way to wrap it up with that context. So, thank you so much for coming on to go over all these different topics. I really appreciate it. >> Thanks, Charlotte. It's always fun being on your show.
>> Of course. Well, once again, I'm Charlotte Mloud with investingnews.com and this is Don Durant with goldtockdata.com. >> Thank you for watching. If you like this video, make sure you hit the like button and subscribe to our channel. We'd also love to hear your thoughts, so leave us a comment below. [Music]
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