[Music] I'm Charlotte Mloud with investingnews.com and here today with me is Hayam Hodley, president of Wheaten Precious Metals. Thank you so much for being here. Great to have you. >> Thank you, Charlotte. Appreciate you inviting me. >> Of course. I think it's going to be a great conversation on pretty much a perfect day to be talking about precious metals. Before we jump into everything that's going on there, I wondered just because it's our first time speaking if you could share a brief introduction to


yourself and your background in the sector. Sure, happy to do that, Charlotte. I've uh I've been in this industry now for more than 30 years. Uh my background, I'm a mining engineer. Uh I did a masters in mineral economics. I spent about almost 17 years um working alongside uh uh well in the North North American securities industry and uh working for the last company I was at was RBC before that and and before that it was a small boutique called Salman about 14 years ago. I joined Wheaton as


senior vice president of corporate development and uh have in the last 13 14 years managed to deploy over 11 billion in capital in the streaming industry along with my team who's obviously done a phenomenal job. >> Of course. Well, impressive background. Thank you for sharing. And let's get right into what's happening with the precious metals. >> I thought we could start with gold. It's been a record setting week, month, year essentially for gold. We got past 4,000 per ounce for the first time this week.


And I know there's so many factors at play driving the metal, but what would you place at the top of the list there? >> Well, with all the continued geopolitical tensions and central bank buying and uh you know just and the the global uncertainty I guess with regards to trade wars etc. Uh the market and investors are flocking to a safe haven commodity. that safe haven commodity is gold and often silver as well. Uh we've got central banks buying, we've got uh rate cut expectations over the next


little while, the continued geopolitical uncertainty I mentioned, but also ETF inflows, which we've seen uh you know consistent inflows into goldbacked ETFs specifically. >> Yeah, it's it's definitely hard to pull out just one thing. It's it's a confluence all coming together, I think, to drive gold. And you know with the price at these levels I'm seeing a lot of optimism among investors like you're saying but I think people are also looking at it and wondering okay how


high can gold go? Does it need to take a breather at this point? What are your thoughts on that? >> Well I mean if you look at the outlook for the US dollar and obviously the US dollar is a critical component to what happens to gold because gold does. So the weaker the US dollar, the stronger the commodity price. And what we're expecting to see over the next I would say uh probably the next 20 12 to 24 months is continued de devaluation of the US dollar which means gold should continue to be stronger going forward.


>> Makes a lot of sense. And I want to bring up silver as well because very historic day for silver. We saw it get past the $50 per ounce mark there. And when I'm looking at silver, what I'm asking everybody right now is how much does silver's move have to do with following gold higher? And how much is to do with maybe silver specific factors? How do you see it? >> Well, silver typically has a higher beta than than gold primarily due to its roles both as the price smells and as an


industrial commodity. So um you know what that means is it reacts more volatility on the up to when you're on the the gold price is going higher and it also reacts with more volatility when the commodity price gold price is going down. Um you know over half of silver silver demand is industrial with the solar panel production and and leading the way. I'd say that's a big part of it. Um I think if it is the affordable metal given where the gold is right now silver is definitely the affordable


metal. So, it's it is acting as a safe haven asset for a lot of investors, though we're a little bit late to the gold market. >> I think that's definitely starting to to come through. And on the note of silver, this $50 level has been kind of a a psychological milestone. And of course, gold is at all-time highs as well. But for silver, I wanted to ask if you had anything you you would share on getting to this level and comparisons to the last time because we've only been here a


couple of times before and those times were quite different. Yeah, I think the last couple times we've seen silver at these levels, we it was a a silver short squeeze effectively. Uh what we're seeing now is actual safe haven investment demand and just a general flock to to precious metals uh as and gold and silver that is, but specifically silver right now as a metal that's an affordable metal for investors to jump into the precious metal space. Um I think going forward what we would


probably see is continued strength in the gold price which would mean continue strengthen the silver price and if you look at the historical gold to silver ratio. Uh you you would see that silver price in order to get back to that historical multiple should probably rise faster than gold going forward. >> Yeah I find the ratio very helpful in looking at where we could be going. And so you're mentioning investors are flocking into precious metals gold and silver and it ties into something I


wanted to ask you about the company. So what kinds of conversations are you having with investors? Can you talk maybe about the level of new entrance to the space that you're seeing at this point? >> Sure. And that that's a very good point because historically it's been resource funds that have been investing in companies like weed and the mining industry in general. What we are seeing is generalist investors who feel like they've started to miss out on this move in the commodity price uh on


specifically gold and silver uh look to safe haven investments. And the the best way for them to do that is to invest in the lowest cost, highest quality asset with the most organic growth and the most leverage to movements in the commodity price. That's where Weaten comes in. We're positioning ourselves as the investment of choice in the in the mining industry. So if somebody's coming in and and they've missed this run, you know, and they want the lowest risk way to do it, that's where that's wheat and


fresh is definitely the the one, >> right? And I think that goes in another direction that I'm seeing some questions about among our audience, which is, you know, is it is it too late? Have people missed this? Is there still time to get in? >> Oh. Oh, absolutely not. I think going forward, you know, precious metals, like I'm looking at the the gold quote as we speak, we're over $4,000. Um, and we are expecting this could go much higher, at least 10 to 20% higher in the near term.


um you know that nothing has changed with the demand outlook for for gold and the weakness projected weakness of the US dollar and that's that's what's going to drive the commodity price higher and silver will tag along with gold as we indicated earlier it does react to more volatility um so the key is for for us as in as mining companies and as investors is to find the best assets that offer you the most leverage and because a significant portion of our production that we get is fixed ounce


basis. We have more leverage than most other companies in this in the mining space. >> Well, and let's talk about some of Weaten's recent news. I think last month at this point the company committed financing to Carcetti Capital and this is for its acquisition of Barracks Hemllo Goldmine. So, this transaction is a little bit unique and interesting. I'm wondering what you would pull out for people to understand there. >> Sure. And this is the first time, excuse me, Wheaton has actually participated in


a an acquisition opportunity where stream was used to acquire an asset. Uh, and it demonstrates the strategic flexibility of our model really. Um, and when we looked at Hemllo, which is what Carcetti was buying, which will be re renamed, I believe, Hemllo Mining Corporation shortly, uh, you know, it's a it's been a brownfields operation that's been operating for, you know, decades. I've been there several times historically myself. Uh it's a, you know, long life, lowcost Canadian gold


mine with a strong operating history, uh, in a politically stable jurisdiction. And that's incredibly important to note. You know, when we're looking at investments, we're looking at an ability to continue to expand these projects. This was a project that was actually starved for capital uh by Bareric because it was not a non it was a non-core asset. It was, you know, it had seen its best days. But I think what the market is not understanding is that you know when you look at what Bareric


was calculating the reserves of this asset at versus what you know which was 1,400 at the time uh and you look at where we are in the commodity price right now that's you know that's a reserve life that's going to be approaching 20 years based on half of where the commodity price is right now. So we're very excited about the outlook for this and it's got a strong operating team in place and a strong management team to actually drive that growth. I think that really helps elucidate what


was going on there. And I'm not sure how much you can share about Weaten's plans moving forward into 2025, 2026, but what what are you looking at? Is there anything that you can talk about? >> Sure. Well, our strategy is to continue to deploy capital in a disciplined approach. We we look for creative transactions only. We're not looking to do we're not looking to grow for the sake of scale. We've never tried to be the biggest company although that has been the outcome but we've always tried


to be the best at most profitable company and with that you know you get size. Um we look at probably between 40 and 68 different opportunities a year as an organization and if we do 2 three four that is a good year for us. Uh so so we are continuing down the path of looking at for those high quality creative transactions that will continue to drive our growth going forward. And you know, we're we're pretty solidly right now in a precious metal is a bull market. Are there any ways that the


company makes adjustments to what it's doing in this type of atmosphere? >> Flexibility and creativity in this industry is what drives this industry and and relationships. So, so if you look at the last last 5 years, 60% of the transactions we've completed have been with existing partners or people we've done business with and know that we're going to treat them fairly in the past. So, so that's you know from our perspective that's incredibly important. Now what's also important as I mentioned


creativity is not every stream is structured the same. You can't just you know take one contract and replace the name and move up move on everyone and and when we're actually putting in our overall uh bids to try and get these transactions. It's a very thoughtful approach that that looks at the overall profile of the operation and tries to minimize the amount of uh impact that the stream will have on that so that you know it's a win-win transaction going forward. >> So Wheaten is is looking carefully for


new deals and also in the broader gold precious metal space. There's companies that are doing M&A right now. I think we've seen quite a bit already in 2025. I'm wondering if I could get your take on what we're seeing there. Are you liking what you're seeing? Do you think we'll see more of these deals making sense to you? >> You know, on the streaming space specifically, we've seen growth for the sake of increasing scale because a lot some pe some people tend to believe or


some companies tend to believe that having that scale will bring you the valuation. That's not the case. What investors will pay for is high quality. They don't want unaccreative growth and they don't want lowquality assets. And that's incredibly important. We're also seeing in the mining space outside of the streaming space, just in the in the general mining companies, you know, we're seeing consolidation going on there. And that's because of, I would say, an inability to continue to explore


or or not an inability, but the lack of exploration dollars that has gone into the ground over the last few years uh in favor of instead looking at acquiring or partnering with some of these junior companies. So now we're seeing a lot of this these companies have very stagnant growth and looking for ways to actually stimulate that growth and that's where consolidation has come in for them. I I don't necessarily believe it is the best outcome for these companies but for some of these companies that don't have that


growth they don't really have much of a choice in this regard. >> Well and you mentioned I think that's a big issue the the lack of exploration that we've seen. Do you think in this type of market that's something that can pick up and and maybe we get a little bit more of that? >> Absolutely. And and it's funny cuz last year this time when we we meet with various companies at at conferences, you know, the majority of the juniors, for example, were sitting on, you know, a


few million dollars at best. And now, well, one year later, they're sitting on, I would say, somewhere between, you know, 10 to 20 million or more, which provides that capital required for expiration. So, so if you'd asked me the same question last year, I would have said, um, you know, it it makes a lot of sense for companies to continue to acquire these junior companies because you're acquiring them at a cheaper dollar per ounce. But now with the uptick in their share prices as well as


their solid balance sheet, uh, you're going to see significantly more exploration dollars going into the ground. And that that's what this mining industry needs. >> Yeah, that that would be great to start to see. And all right, so we've gone through I think quite a bit with gold and silver. If we tie this all together, where would you place this in the cycle right now for precious metals? I know you've talked a little bit about that, but just to put it all together. >> Sure. And we're we're still in the


growth phase of the preessional cycle. I think there's there's a lot of uh I would say companies that have a strong organic growth profile, not unlike ours. Like for example, we have 40% organic growth the next four years on projects that are permanent in construction alone. That's one of the best growth profiles. There's there's other companies in the space that are similarly doing this doing that as well. Uh but not to the same growth profile. Um I would say going forward, we're


going to continue to see consolidation in the mining industry because of that lack of growth in some areas. Uh and I think you're going to continue to see some consolidation in the streaming space because of uh the the I would say the not as exciting growth profile as we have going forward. >> Makes complete sense. And I will let you go. But before I do, any final thoughts that you would share on either Weaten or the markets with investors right now? >> Sure. Maybe I'll just make a couple


comments. I'll say, you know, Wheaten is by far the should be the premium investment vehicle for any investors. It's high quality, long life, pure precious metals, has an organic growth profile. It's not that's that's unlike anybody else out there. It's low cost, low risk with a focus on strong partnerships and ESG. And you know we've got 83% of our assets coming production pardon me coming from assets that fall the lowest half of the cost curve. We've got over 60 years of res reserve and


resource life and uh a 40% organic growth profile without having to even lift a finger going forward. So you know we're and and that's that's a conservative profile without having to do additional transactions. Our industry our company was built on a creative transactions and that's something we're going to continue to focus on going forward. Well, great overview. I hope to have you back soon so we get can get some updates on what's going on. But great to have you. Thank you very much.


>> It's a pleasure meeting you and thank you for having me on your show. >> Of course. And once again, I'm Charlotte Mloud with investingnews.com and this is Hayam Hodley with Wheaten Precious Metals. Thank you for watching. If you like this video, make sure you hit the like button and subscribe to our channel. We'd also love to hear your thoughts, so leave us a comment below. [Music]