gold news

 [Music] I'm Charlotte McLoud with investing news.com and here today with me is Keith weiner founder and CEO of monetary medals thank you so much for being here great to have you thanks for having me Charlotte really good to be speaking with you probably the the perfect time with so much going on in the gold market and monetary medalist has just released its 2025 Gold Outlook so we're going to make that the focus of the conversation today I thought to ask with just uh a brief question to take the temperature

on the gold market so you had told us before that we were in buy the dips market for gold not a sell the blips market and with a price at or near 3,000 is that still the case for you [Music] absolutely okay good to good to get that very short and sweet answer so let's move over and and take a look at the report so one of the really key situations it goes over is what's going on with tariffs and this movement of gold so that's a very complex situation and you go through it very thoroughly

what would you want people to know about that you know at the end of the day things are simple you know and if you can't explain it simply and Richard fan famous physicist said if you can't explain it to a Smart eth grader you really don't understand it and there was some uh some kind of motion it was when you you take a tennis racket you you try to flip it in a certain way it it ends up rotating and he couldn't explain it to an eth grader and he said you know what I guess we don't really understand

this well enough yet um at the end of the day people respond to the opportunity to make a profit now retail gold buyers profit means you buy it and it goes up big time and then you sell it and you lock into up B capital gain and that's one way to play the market but the institutional players that generally acting as market makers they're not betting on price they are net neutral to price but they're responding to a spread and the classic spread and I've been writing about this for 15 years or so uh

is they buy Spot physical metal and at the same time at the same instant they sell a Futures Contract and they walk in it's a small spread it's not a lot of money but they can do this great leverage and the cost of or capital is very cheap for a big Bank um they can spread that we call basis and um you know for for the last couple of years since since uh pal started hiking interest rates the basis has gone up quite a bit and you know you're looking in the vicinity of four or five% you

know parum to do this trade and so it's an interest rate that they can play like anything else you can borrow for less than that and you can put on that trade to make money okay fine very simple that's how that's how you understand the gold futurist Market it's not a matter of a futur setting the price spot setting the price that's like if I clap which hand is making the sound I mean come on there's some interaction between the two markets and um that's how the the world is wired you know today now uh

Trump started talking about tariffs he's been talking about tariffs for obviously many years but in a more serious way and a more specific way uh the moment he won the election and all of a sudden it occurred to people there may be tariffs on imported gold and silver which there's never been before and um you know that would be a great Calamity particularly imagine if you put on this trade and again it's you're not making huge amounts of money I mean 4% perom on you know $3,000 is um what is that uh uh 10%

would be 300 bucks 30 bucks $120 free year so um you know $10 for month $20 for two month trade something like that per ounce not a huge amount of money and all of a sudden there's a possibility of a 25% tariff which would be $750 an ounce so mechanics of this trade nobody really thinks about it that much and we don't generally write about the fact that spot means London you buy physical metal in London a Futures means New York so you're long London short New York York and now there might be a 25% tariff

to import gold or silver to New York think about that for a minute so you're in this trade for 10 or 20 bucks and there's a possibility however remote it might be that you could be faced with a loss of $750 what are you going to do so you know these are not individuals I mean these are institutions and institutions have risk officers and so it's not up to the individual Trader to say ah you know wave his hand that's not the risk you're looking for like some Jedi mind trick right the risk Officer says fix this we

even tells them how to fix it and there's a fairly simple fix it's take you know you bought the metal in London take it and deliver it physically bring it into the US and and have it in a vault in New York instead of a vault in London and if you do that then you're inside the Tariff Slamm down you're inside the window before it closes so much is being said about this I won't get into all the conspiracies that the US doesn't have the gold and now that they're threatening to audit it

and rush to bring in and repatriate all the gold that they sold decades ago or whatever um a lot of people tie because people think in terms of price they don't think in terms of spread a lot of people tie this and say well this is driving the price up or this is a response to a higher price well this is strategic see Trump is trying to make America strong he's trying to bring back the goal because there's going to be a new gold standard we need the gold back at the us or whatever this is a response

to spread and the threat of 25% loss which would you people would be carried out in body bags if they had to take a 25% loss so they want to keep the trade on because there's money to be made and then they just bring the metal over which as long as there's no tariff bringing metal over in quantity is pretty cheap uh I mean you're talking basis points of cost um and uh so then the medals in New York okay fine if you're a big Bank you don't necessarily care it's in London or New York either

way it's in the Vault of a major Bank could be JP Morgan could be Goldman Sachs could HSBC uh at in VA or brains it could be you know whatever it is at in VA in New York and now you're you're immune to the Tariff threat because your gold is already in so that's what it is and we see you know big inflows of gold at least relative to uh you know what comx Walts had they say what's draining the vaults in London no not so much um if you look at as a percentage of toal gold in London it's uh it's you know

barely registering above the noise floor um there are delays I don't know if this is still true but as of a couple of weeks ago delays getting your metal out because there just aren't that many employees who can bring gold in or out of a vault like that and if everybody at the same time wants to export some of the gold you know you run it to a bottleneck because the Capa labor capacity you know in that vault is in elastic you can't increase it you know for short-term Spike so a little bit of

of disruption if you're in that end of the market otherwise you know nothing's gone at the moment until at least if there are tariffs then all hell is going to break lose right I think that's exactly what I was going to ask you so does this situation persist until we get some clarity on the Tariff situation I mean there may be a permanently elevated level of inventory in York because at least the kind of risks that once people discover there's a risk it never really subsides back to

zero you always have to think about it but yeah once there's Clarity obviously if there is a tariff then we'll see what the new reality is I don't think you can run a Futures Market out of a country that has uh 25% tariffs you know the us is going to become a a third world you know country like in India or Vietnam where they have massive tariffs on a lot of things and particularly gold and what happens internal to those countries is the price of gold that's available on the street can bounce back and forth

between $3,000 and 3750 depending on whether demand is big enough to have to pull gold externally or whether you know enough domestic Supply to meet domestic demand so with that kind of volatility um hedging becomes much more expensive for dealers which means retail people will experience much wider spreads so today if you want to buy a gold coin at retail let's say you want to buy one and you go to a coin shop on Main Street you're paying what 5% over spot you know something like that and if

you sell it back you're getting spot or maybe spot plus a have a point or something well in a tariff regime where it's much more costly and unpredictable to try to hedge risk for the dealer it might be that you pay spot plus 15% of spot plus 20 and when you sell it back they'll give you spot minus five so you just make much wider spreads much bigger losses to anybody who trades in and out um ultimately I think it'll Force the Futures Market to go offshore um I think places like Dubai are

probably waiting for something like that to happen because they you'll give them the market on a on a silver platter um and you know to make gold a bit less attractive uh certainly to us you know us based people um or they'll have to they have to own it offshore somehow having it inside the country become impractical okay so I think that gives us a pretty good idea of the impact we're seeing in terms of tariffs on the gold market are we seeing similar activity play out in silver yeah same

thing and the same possible threat and you know I I don't think but it's always hard to make political predictions I could end up being very wrong on this I don't think they're going to tariff gold and silver I mean if I I don't really agree with the state opposition to tariffs at all but if you're going to Tar things like consumer goods because you're trying to protect domestic manufacturers all the logic doesn't really apply to to gold or silver but it definitely doesn't

apply it more strongly doesn't apply to gold and it less strongly doesn't apply to Silver so if you ended up with har on one of the two it would be silver but your gold but the same the same right now it's the same Dynamic the same fear same Imports the same you know same same everything um and uh you know again if that happens you know chaos that could destroy the us-based ref miners you know who's going to want to try to import the the Dade into the US 25% tarff it becomes completely

uneconomical to do so uh just a mess yeah it it does sound like a mess when you lay it out in that way so anything further you would add on tariffs I know there's a lot of turmoil and a lot of uncertainty in terms of the Tariff situation we hear that they're inflationary as us is trying to teame inflation any other thoughts yeah I mean I I don't Define inflation as an increase in consumer prices but if that's the standard definition that most people have and even Milton Friedman who

would have been the first to take the pedantic position no inflation is the increase in the quantity of money but um uh you know Rising consumer prices is the inevitable and you know proportional consequence to that um but if if you just run with that for a minute you know there's now tariffs uh on imported Canadian uh Lumber and um aluminum and steel that obviously means that the prices of those Commodities goes goes up in the United States and the prices of anything made with those things has to

go up and you know I don't know how many goods are currently subject to tariff but you know if there's a comprehensive thing that just cars everything then the price of consumer goods going to go up a lot the stated purpose is to force production to stop being done offshore and then to be uh you know for companies to open factories and whatever you know within the US now if that's the case then the reason why they're not already Manufacturing in the United States is because it was more expensive to do so

here first choice was China so if you make it you know illegal or at least impractical or uneconomic manufacturer in China and you get it to come to the United States you can declare Victory but it was only because you were successful in forcing companies to do their second you know second choice or third choice okay so all the stuff is going to be more expensive if you're forced to make it in the United States at the same time so that's you know punch number one is let's Force the cost

of everything to go up um number two is um let's Deport they've said tens of millions of people I I don't know if that's really realistic or not there's obviously constitutional challenges Court challenges you know that's a mess as well but imagine you supported you deported tens of millions of people yeah sure you're going to get some criminals and so um what is that gang MS13 or Mi what's the uh I forget the name of the uh uh Colombian gang no El Salvador gang um anyway you're going to get some of

those people you're also going to get plenty and pl some people on welfare you have plenty of people who work now so you're deporting a great deal of the workforce while at the same time you're forcing companies to increase their demand for labor which means the cost of Labor is going to go up they say okay great that's what we want to do we want to get Americans paid more but we're producing less stuff at higher costs somebody's standard of living is going to go down pretty dramatically but more

importantly to the inflation picture if inflation is defined as an increase in consumer prices and you've forced them to Manufactured a high cost jurisdiction with much higher regulatory costs and then deported a lot of Labor to drive up the price of Labor even more then you're going to find consumer prices have one two punch the third punch is what is everybody's solution from from a monetary policy perspective to inflation so-called hike the interest rate which means hike the cost of financing new

factories and Hikes the cost of putting automation but every Factory is in a given place and time in terms of how much automation they have and very few factories are 100% automated you know the idea of a lights off Factory where it's 100% automated is a is a Holy Grail that I don't think really exists yet and every company when faced with massively increased demand for labor and massively higher labor you know is going to want to want to automate more well the cost of financing the automation is going to

be hyped so what we're going to see is just one two three punch for you forces pushing up uh consumer prices and two of them aren't monetary the third one arguably or ironically the monetary one is intended to take pressure off of inflation is actually further accentuating it um and so um hope hopefully that doesn't happen hopefully you know tariffs bog down politically there blow back people start to say wait a minute we're pissing off our friends like Canada and you know let's not do

that if this is all about China Fine tarff China but Canada seriously French wine Scotch whiskies I mean what what are we doing here hopefully this bogs down uh not to get political but um and certainly I I I have to say I hope it doesn't affect you gold and silver the monetary medals yeah I think you can really start to see what a a complex web of factors there are there and I think this is a good path into talking about the FED which is another Topic in the monetary metal is Gold Outlook so the report talks about

how the FED is pretty pretty Keen to keep rates higher and not go down too quickly which which may not end up being possible so what do you see as the P the fed's path forward I I think the FED is wanted to keep rate higher and I think their their back is up I mean to to things that policy is up by think like personal egos is a pretty strong argument that we shouldn't have Central planners because in anybody's book who say why central planning is good they never really addressed like

you know how much of it is driven by the egos of the central planners but Trump has made it clear he wants to force the FED to force interest rates down taking command of the FED if necessary I think he's got their backups so even if they were someone inclined to somewhat relent I think now you know just to just to fight Trump they'd be inclined to um you know keep rtire for longer but I like to point to things I just um actually Twitter wouldn't doesn't I I haven't been able to get um picture uploads to

work on Twitter the last few days um so I posted to Facebook but I didn't post to Twitter and it was a picture of of an ad for the Mitsubishi Outlander I think it was and they're offering 0% interest for 60 months five years and um you know that even when interest rates were zero that's obviously a subsidy by the car company to firey to to buy the car and now with interest rates much higher than they used to be before 2022 uh the cost of that subsid has gone up dramatically why are they doing this

well obviously because they don't do it sales are going to fall off a cliff and that loss will be greater than the loss they're taking on the subsidized you know loan but from a monetary policy perspective this shows that the demand for credit at least in the vehicle Market which is business as well as personal obviously um is very soft and non-existent except as zero interest rates you want to sell cars you can't sell cars with 7% financing that alone Ian Market would be more than seven Market would probably be

eight or nine you can't sell cars with eight or 9% financing you're lucky to sell cars 0% financing and I think that's true everywhere you look in the business world there's no demand for credit whether to open a new Factory open a new ca hamburger restaurant add to your production line if you're making Hamburger grilling equipment or fryer equipment uh you you need to borrow money to do that there's no demand for credit except on a down Tech in the interest rate and so is the Fed going to

be able to to continue to sustain this High interest rate against all of those other forces which I'll call them recessionary um I I don't I don't you know I I can't tell you the exact timing of when this all collapses um like I said the forces are all pushing down on on interest rates not not higher right and speaking about recession I believe for you the the likelihood of a US recession has increased compared to where it stood last year so is there anything you can say on that maybe

looking at the the length and potential severity of a a recession I mean if you just do you know curs we look at history you know this incredible boom that we've had which is really the same boom since 2009 so it's been Obama for eight years Trump for four years Biden for four years um and now you know getting into Trump second term or first first of his second Administration I don't know how you count it um this just a very stale old boom that's gotten very long in the too and normally the thing that breaks these

things they hike the interest rate that causes you know dat to default somewhere at the margin uh certainly we've seen commercial real estate you know given the you know covid got everybody out of the habit of going to the office and then you know companies are trying to some companies are trying to force people to go back to the office I don't know if that trend is going to be particularly successful now of course monetary medals you know we've always been a remote company anyway we're

somewhat amused by the whole thing but I think the amount of commercial office space that has been built is a lot higher than the amount of commercial office space that's needed in this new environment I don't think the offic is going away but I think a lot of workers are going to come in a couple days a week but not five which means hoteling and hot desks and all that kind of stuff um and so you know commercial landlords are you know in the world of hurt that's all Finance all I credit um people who

buy houses the saying even when I was buying my first house in the 1990s people don't buy house price I buy payment so at much higher interest rates you get much higher payments so there's a problem there um and I just think we're headed towards first of all dropping demand for anything that's credit sensitive um and uh you know Rising uh risk of default when that all hits who knows and now tariffs just simply going to mean if you drive up the cost of things people can afford less of

it right so people are going to buy less whether it's laptops whether it's avocados whether it's wheat um or some prices May crash so if if all the other countries slap ratory tariffs on the US is a net exporter of things like weat so the weat price would crash at least temporarily until you put all those Farmers out of business and by the way they default on their loans at their Banks their banks are going to then retrench and pull credit back and so on and then longer term you may end up with

higher weak prices but anything we import avocados being one um Canadian maple syrup Canadian Lumber aluminum steel anything made with metal basically um those prices go up people afford less and that means there's fewer jobs for the Distributors the truckers the shippers the retailers um there just you get a lower volume as people are are forer and um you know forc to Jo to discover the joys of staying home and um you know you don't necessarily buy if you're poor maybe you can't buy toys for you know

for for Christmas presents for your kids you know people ReDiscover Woodling little whistle out of wood or something I don't know kids today would be satisfied with that the way my grandparents day they were um but you know you just get a reduction of volume reduction of employment you get that General mise that um you know last last existed in the 1970s and I think I think from what you're saying we start to get a sense of what happens to the dollar in these circumstances but anything you would add

on that note so dollar is very interesting um the dollar has built a network effect that is I I think it can't be displaced right so if you're in the rest of the world you don't like your local currency because the local currencies are worse just that data in the United States is much more plentiful so we're much more uh apt to be talking about problems the US currency those problems exist in all the other currencies number one number two they're all dollar dors anyway number

three many of them are capital control so they're completely useless outside the borders and even even currencies like the Euro or the pound there's no Capital controls but there's no demand for euros outside the borders of Euro Zone there's no demand for for Sterling outside the borders UK and so the world is stuck with the dollar you whether it wants it or not tariffs just means means it's harder to get revenues by sending Goods to the US which means it's harder to service your dollar debts which

aren't going to go away anytime soon because that everybody's in that up to here and so ironically you could see um a stronger dollar against the Euro and the pound uh Yan uh you know Etc um not in a good way but you it just has a perverse consequence of very perverse circumstances I think we've taken a look at quite a number of the factors that are important for for gold right now but is there anything else that you are keeping an eye on that you you feel is important always look at the Gold basis

which um is available for free on our website one of the graphs we published um which gives you a sense of how the price how the basis is moving with the price so if you see Rising price accompanied by Rising basis which means the Futures contracts are getting more expensive relatives to spot that's spread is widening that means the buying is occurring largely in the Futures Market that is the pattern we saw from uh you know after August of 2011 when the gold price had it's Peak the last

time around just under $2,000 through 2018 but every time the priceing go up you see the Bas that's rising and it was easier for me to make the call time time and time again I got hate mailed for this but I was right damn I was right that um this is not a durable move this is people in the Futures Market front running only themselves the price will come back down we had articles looking at the halflife you how long would the move take before first you know and so on so if you see that that's really bad

if you're expecting the price to go up that's not the pattern we've been seeing uh you know postco and certainly the last uh you know in 2024 when we as a basis uh either refusing to go up stubbornly or even declining slightly as the price goes up which means it's all been driven by uh buying in metal versus buying Futures which is a very important distinction people who buy metal are much more likely to be holding that for years or decades people in buy Futures generally do sell on very great leverage

you can do that on 20 to1 leverage um and if you're buying something even on 10 to one leverage you know you have to sell it fairly quickly that leverage has a cost number one you're not going to hold that position for too long number two if the price goes up you take profits that was the whole point the price goes down you have to cut losses you have to stop so either way people jump into the Futures Market to specul jump out fairly quickly uh people who buy coins take them home and stick them

wherever you know the safe under the floorboards whatever and generally those aren't coming back to market for a long time so that is a durable uh you know bit of demand and the demand that we've seen has been of that sort where you see the bases stubbornly refusing to rise with a rising price or even falling a bed nothing dramatic I don't see permanent gold back ration or any of those scenarios happening yet um but there's a reason why everybody's buying gold and it's not if they're not it's

not because they're Bing on its price not yet when that happens you'll see the gold basist Rising it's because people are concerned about credit risk and sure you know the dollar may go up relative to the other currencies because everybody's defaulting but you really want to be a creditor in a world where everybody's defaulting uh sure the surviving credits go up in value but there's a risk that maybe your credit isn't one of the ones that makes it and so you know there's

there's a monetary Madness going on everyone expect that's going to get worse right so look look at Co enormously destructive economic policy we locked down the whole economy and we said okay only certain industries are deemed to be vital they're allowed to be unlocked um and that was you know you started to see the stock market collapse but then how did they fix it massive stimul stimulatory both monetary policy and fiscal policy you know it was it was a goal per win fee and you get a free

$10,000 check and you get $10,000 you get you know everybody getting free monies all over the place that's how we made the stock market go up and and continue the boom well there's I think with good reason people are expecting that um to compensate for tariffs and other destructive policies that you know there will be another fiscal um stimulatory effort as well as getting back said a monetary simulative effect well it's a good thing to be owning gold when they're going mad like that gold is

the thing you want to own not necessarily stocks where okay they're stimulating but you know sales volumes are falling revenues are harder and harder to get you know margins are getting crushed uh gold is the thing to own and so I think that's obvious globally everyone's buying gold for for this and and this time i' say for better reasons in 2009 to 2011 everybody bought gold that fear consumer prices going to rise as a consequence of QE and consumer prices didn't really rise as a

consequence commodity prices Rose the specular wave and then fell today look at all everybody talks about inflation I bet you have a lot of guests on your show to talk about inflation and money print thing do they admit that the price of oil today is well under half of what it was in 2008 last time I I I looked at oil today but last week it was like $66 a barrel and $145 a barrel in Spring of 2008 you know so with all this inflation why is oil cheaper than ever um it's a very funny thing and so anyway people

were buying gold as Edge against this and when it didn't happen they all sold their gold and the price of gold came right back down to the floor that had been you know the ceiling up to 2008 was a th000 bucks right after everything fell fell apart eventually gold made a low in 2016 or 2017 I think th40 you was right back to that as the floor you know it's been up since then I think people today are buying gold for a fundamentally right reason which is credit fear rather than a fundamentally

wrong reason which is that monetary policy is going to create higher prices which was not true then very very interesting to see that shift and you know from the way that you're looking at Gold does that allow you to to put a price range for the metal this year or is it more that we're looking at upward movement I don't want to give away um what we said in the report because we do make some price targets but um I think substantially higher prices in you know coming ahead um you all the fundamental

drivers are in place for it um and as more people discover it more people get on board you know it becomes a reinforcing feedback look at some point and that's when you'll see the seeds of potentially a correction the more people that are buying simply because they saw the price chart rather than buying because you know they're thinking about uh getting out of so much credit exposure um then that'll drive the price to that parabolic top and um and then after that at a predictable corre

correction but you know Corrections are not and you know I think in the report I said um I do expect a correction at some point that's a moment that we that I had to submit the the piece that I wrote I said we might be in the middle of that correction obviously that proved to be only very shortlived you know two or three days and right after that you know on Friday we made over $3,000 in the morning I haven't looked at the price today but I think it's right just about there um it wouldn't surprise me if we

decisively break through 3,000 this week wouldn't surprise me if we had a correction people love psychological lines in the sand 3,000 is an even number I mean doesn't mean anything to the gold market but it's a psychologically even number you know could there be a correction now could it be next month yes but longer term the trend is up okay I think that's good to go over and I have to throw in a question about silver as well in terms of where it's going because I think people are very familiar with the idea

that Silver Fall gold and they're really waiting right now for silver to start following a little bit more so thoughts on on this silver price moving forward so here we get a bit of a Divergence and you know the Divergence both silver relative to gold and um silver relative to past B markets obviously in the run off to 2011 silver massively outperformed gold and we ended up with a gold silver ratio of 30 versus you know 90 or whatever it is right now um and um you know at this moment in time again

looking at the basis but also just kind of looking at the macro uh the drivers for silver just aren't as strong fundamental man for silver isn't as strong and and I think the reason is silver you know partly there's there's the industrial uses of it and I think industrial use in the Tariff environment even if silver isn't tariff the Goods that silver goes into the rest of the metals and the other things in there and the goods themselves will you know be tariffed um but silver to the extent

that there's a monetary component to it silver is the money of the wage earner and I think the wage earners under are under stress and have been for a long time and so you're just not seeing the wage ear or the stacker being able to stack silver the way you know they would if if if the jobs Market were better um you know gold is about toward the asset for the capital own a class um people aren't buying gold out of their weekly wages very few people make such weekly wages to buy 1 ounce

you know 10 if you're putting aside 10% of your weekly wage who makes who makes $30,000 a month not very many people um who makes 300 I'm sorry a week excuse me per week um you to buy to buy uh an ounce of gold and and for a weekly wage but for silver a lot of people make you know well over 30 $30 a week so they can buy a couple out of silver out of the weekly wages um and so it's always been that way silver has always been that way for uh working people um you know gold is trading against other Capital assets so as long

as people have fears about stocks real estate bonds um I just read a thing about the classic car business now that uh baby boomers have reached the point where they' stopped acquiring more 1971 chevels and 1968 Mustangs and some of them were forced to sell ill health obviously death whenever um younger Generations my generation is Gen X we never you know we didn't grow up with those cars the time I was in high school those cars were already old Cluckers and there's some kids who had them but they

were junky they were clunky they were rusted they were unreliable they're always being repaired you we have the same fond memories of those things um and and obviously the Millennials you know very little experience with those cars I don't think the demand you know the demand is there so people that are selling assets and some of those old uh you know cars the ones that have really been restored to factory condition are kind of assets you know they perceive that to be a dead asset class they're

selling that to buy another asset it's not to go binge on consumer goods it's something that's going to preserve their wealth or their purchasing power what are they if they're selling classic cars s because of of that concern what are they buying gold as one of those things um so you all roads come back to gold right now and for people who know me long enough I definitely not been a perm through the whole long dark years I got hate mail for being they called me a primma bear now I feel like I'm a prima

bow saying everything leads to a higher gold price but um I call like I see it yeah yeah interesting to to see that shift there so I think we've taken a pretty good look at gold a little bit at Silver I'll I'll let you go but before I do any final thoughts you would share with investors I know there's a lot of noise and confusion out there right now um be very very careful in taking on debt um the asset that you finance with that that could go down dramatically in value you U interest rates could be a

wild ride ability to generate the revenue to service the debt could be tough the bank could be pulling back the credit uh especially if you're borrowing short to to finance a long asset um be very very careful or in potentially Uncharted Territory or maybe so I say smooth Holly um you know territory where uh you know there could be several major shocks to the economy coming um so now is the time to deleverage own some something you know safe and secure um spend less and uh and be careful okay well I think that's a a

good point to end with so thank you very much for for coming on today to go over the report I think it was really helpful thanks for having me of course and once again I'm Charlotte McLoud with investing news.com and this is Keith wiener with monetary medals thank you for watching if you like this video make sure you hit the like button and subscribe to our Channel we'd also love to hear your thoughts so leave us a comment below [Music]