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 [Music] [Music] I'm Charlotte McLoud with investing news.com and here today with me is Christopher Mulan je Market strategist at the technical traders.com thank you so much for being here great to have you thanks for having me Charlotte always a pleasure yeah and our first time in person so very excited to actually see you in the flesh and we're here at VR I see and I'm pretty Keen to get your thoughts on this conference because you're so focused on the chart and I feel like this is an event where there's

a lot of talks of oh geopolitics and the News cycle so what are your impressions yeah it's it's a very different group that are energy that I'm used to I'm I'm all about the charts and technicals and everyone here is very into stocks and fundamentals and Drilling and all that stuff right it's all it's all U into the resource space so it it's great it's it's a it's a totally fresh view on um a lot of investors and and what they're investing in in the resource space so

it's good to talk to everybody and see what's going on yeah and on that note so I know that you've already presented on stage today and unfortunately I've been up here locked away so I didn't get the chance to hear what you had to say but maybe we could start by going over the message that that you brought to people here yeah so today I was uh trying to share with everybody um a new way to invest a different way which you I've talked about before I call it asset Reves so it's not buy and hold but it's

not active trading it's really just finding a way to move your money into an asset class that is rising only holding stuff going up so if something stops going up we move to a different asset and so the big message today I was trying to share was there's three investment strategies that most people do all of them and they're all very dangerous they're high risk low return and so the first one is the Buy and Hold strategy diversification and and I show the volatility of Buy and Hold is a

guaranteed roller coaster you're going to go through a bare Market or multiple of them and it's pretty devastating for most people and the problem with the Buy and Hold is you're Diversified so you have a bunch of portfolio in stocks a bunch in bonds and what happens when you're Diversified is you have half your portfolio is winning the other half's losing and so your winners are killed by your losers and you end up with a really poor low average return and that's the Buy and Hold that's why it takes 40 50

years with the Buy and Hold to make money so that was the one one of the strategies that I I talked about the weakness the other is falling in love with stocks and people have owned marijuana stocks they've owned golden silver stocks and you name it all kinds of different stocks that go down and never come back or they take a decade and so I'm I'm not a fan of falling in love with an asset the stock market is always trying to take your money I'm like get in when there's a trade and a

trend follow it get out when it's not favorable and then the last one is the the power the dangers really of dividend stocks and most investors have a ton of dividend stocks the average investor in the United States is 45 plus they're close to retired or retired and the number one strategy they're told is to buy buy the Big Blue Chips buy dividend stocks they're solid they're they're big companies but they actually carry way more risk downside risk than the stock market itself so for example in the last

few weeks the stock market is down about 4 and a half% the dividend portfolio is down about almost 10% nine and a half so these so-called safe lowrisk stocks carry twice as much volatility and during the covid crash the stock market fell 35% dividend stocks fell 48% and poor retirees and investors took the biggest hit and here they think they have the best uh opportunity or the lowest risk but the problem is dividend stocks don't rally when the stock market rallies they kind of Flatline so that I

was showing the comparisons on the chart so when you see the visuals of these three St strategies compared to something that rotates into a new trend gets out of the trend and moves into a different asset uh it's dramatically different and um unfortunately uh we're going into a very difficult phase I think 2025 is going to be very very crazy for all asset classes and if you don't have a strategy the market is going to do a lot of damage to people and there's more people close to retired

or retired right now than ever before and the market is great at hurting the maximum amount of people so I think you know that's my whole message is how we can how can you protect yourself yeah well and maybe we should talk a little bit more about your strategy for these circumstances because I think you just debunked I think three of the main things that people are told often yeah I mean I'm I'm a like I I was in fundamental stocks back in really before 2000 and I owned the best companies they

had to have quarterly growth for like a year and the tech bubble came and they blew up the stocks lost got cut in half they got cut in half again and and I lost all the money I made up to that point and that was when I realized okay fundamentals don't work if a price is going down as an investor we're losing money unless we're in favor of the drend so I moved to technical analysis which is what you and I usually show the charts and the technical analysis allows us to identify trends when a new trend

is started if the underlying strength is there and it looks like it's going to be a strong wave then we invest into that asset could be the stock index could be bonds or currency uh commodity and we ride that Trend and then when the technicals start to weaken we move out and um all the traditional investment models don't do any of that they really expose you to all of all three things and um you just carry a ton of risk yeah and maybe we talk a little bit broadly just to begin about Trends you are

riding in this this year that's probably be quite volatile I think the big Trend right now like um the stock index gave us a sell signal not not a sell short but just to get out the stock market is not favorable and this happened a few weeks ago so the Market's been really trading sideways so we've moved to the US dollar Index uh it's a low volatility play really boring nobody even a lot of people don't even think it's a trade they don't believe it's a trade um just

because it's you know you're buying into a currency uh but it's one of the most powerful tools when the market falls apart if it was to sell off the dollar can do very well and you not it's not volatile so you don't have to sweat and worry about it dropping five or 10% a big move in the dollar is like two and half 3% um in the dollar Index so it's a nice low volatility play um I think people need to realize sometimes the best play is really doing very little either cash or the dollar and that's

what people need to focus on okay and and as you had outlined when you're doing this you're not diversifying all over the place so this is the main thing that you're doing currently yes so this whole strategy is what I've been doing since 2001 and I I really just invest and manage my own capital and I share through a newsletter so people just copy what I do so I'm not dishing out trades I'm not trying to like hook people into anything I'm just like here's what I'm

doing and I this is how we're going to navigate the chaos between all the different things and I cover precious metals I cover real estate there's all kinds of opportunities coming and um and those are all things I invest in as well uh but more or less this is what I do this is what I live and breathe and it's not about trying to make the most money it's about trying to preserve capital and and just consistently grow our wealth without worrying about devastating values yeah yeah very very

scary to talk about so we'll go into some of our usual topics now I think I definitely want to bring up gold as usual so we actually last spoke pretty recently I think about mid December and you told us at that time that we're probably heading into a consolidation period for the metal and you know it's gone it's gone higher since then but no no wild breakout so are you still looking for that consolidation period for gold yeah Gold's still pausing I I'm neutral to bullish on gold I still think

gold has potential to make some new highs I think it could actually run up based on the charts to maybe 3,50 um which is a half decent run from where it is but overall I think the majority of the move in gold is kind of over you and I have showed this on charts in the past uh back in 2007 we saw gold have a big move up and we've had a similar type of move now and so I think you can still hold gold I think it's still going a little higher uh but overall I don't think it's it's a new

trade I think if anything you need to protect yourself if it breaks the lows that we saw like about a month ago I'd probably be moving out of gold if you were still in it because I think it could actually have a fairly significant drop okay okay good to take a look at gold and I imagine I think last time you had said kind of a similar situation playing out for silver is that kind of still the case they're pretty much the same trade there's the same okay so I think it's a really good time to be

checking in with you cuz also during that December conversation you talked about the end of January as a time that we really needed to pay attention to when it comes to the stock market cuz if we get a higher close in January usually it's a positive year for the stock so you've kind of shared what you're seeing already is there anything you would expand there well I think we've got Trump trump moving in he's I think there's going to be all he's like a wild card Trump guard if you play uker um

there's a lot of wild cards January is naturally a volatile month for stocks we see big rallies and drops where the market closes in January if it's positive it tends to be a strong year if it's a negative close for January for the SP 500 it's usually a bearish year so I'm kind of waiting to see what that tone is but then we have all the stuff going on with Trump and who knows if it's going to juice the markets higher we are very close to a new Buy Signal in the stock market so if for some reason

everybody rallies up with Trump in we could be long equities again um but they could roll over and die and that's why our whole strategy right now is saying get out and just move to a currency uh because there isn't real certainty there isn't a real Direction when you lift the hood to the markets it isn't screaming move your money here it's saying it's all over the place it's like you know just step back and let this thing figure itself out the paint the the charts paint pictures and when you can read the

pictures and and understand what's going on behind them then you can take action but right now it's just a messy picture there's no real confirmation of what side to put our money on yeah yeah and it's a tricky time just for um for the audience we're talking on the eve of inauguration day so we really really don't know what's going to be happening and hopefully we'll post this quite quickly but it's it's bound to be uncertain so also in in December we had

talked about best performing assets for 2025 potentially and he'd mentioned TLT so this is a long-term treasury bond ETF and there's been a lot of talk about what's happening with these long-term treasury so can you unpack what's going on there for people who might not be familiar or understand what this means yeah so I I think eventually rates will fall I think when when chaos hits the markets equities start to sell off I think the FED will start cutting rates you know we have Trump and tariffs I

don't know how that's going to implement things and how we're going to what we're going to see with inflation but eventually when things get ugly we're going to probably see interest rates get slashed if rates go down bonds go up um I'm not a huge fan of bonds yet they're still in a long-term downtrend they haven't actually carved out of bottom so we're not I'm not interested in them yet but once they put a bottom in and say the music does come to an end with the

equities Market the economy stalls bonds should Rise From the Ashes and I think they'll have some pretty good upside potential so I like those but until bonds are favorable the US dollar Index is the kind of the best Play It's low volatility it tends to do well in uncertainty and um it's um it's kind of that low volatility play to get into yeah yeah I definitely can see your you're on theme with that one here okay so so we're setting Trump aside a little bit just because there's so much

uncertainty and I know that you're all about tuning out noise of what's going on but because we're here at a Canadian event and we've got some changes coming about in Canada as well we've had just Cho resign probably we're heading toward an election sooner than later perhaps so does that change your approach in terms of anything that you're doing does it make anything in Canada more or less appealing to you not really like news and and political stuff doesn't weigh in

on anything it has zero input to our strategy but it does say there's a lot of stuff coming down the pike and there's probably going to be volatility so I'm expecting all of this craziness to move all kinds of assets like who knows what all these things are going to do right everything's going to go haywire and anybody who's says this is going to happen it's not true like none of us know it's going to happen the key is follow price and um follow it as close as you can not try to predict

what's going to happen because if you try and predict you're going to lose 50% of the time um that's just the way it works so um knowing all these elections and what's going on in Canada we just have to be aware the Canadian dollar is going to be volatile and um Commodities are going to be volatile stock market's going to be volatile you just have to be ready for a wild year yeah this is kind of kind of the answer I expected but I I think it's it's good to go into and I

wanted to use that as kind of a bridge into oil and gas which I don't I don't remember if we've spoken about this Market before but I'm curious what you are seeing there coming ahead the energy stock space typically when we get to the end of a major stock market cycle we've talked about gold gold comes to life and does very well energy stocks generally do the same and energy stocks have been on fire they've been moving up uh for months really for the last year oil prices have been going

down trying to find some at about $65 a barrel so there's a Divergence typically when energy stocks get up here uh we see them have a huge correction so I think we're just kind of waiting for the economic data to stall I think we're going to see oil eventually break down and energy stocks are I think are going to be one of the the worst hit in the near term so I'm pretty bearish on energy stocks um and they're it's going to hurt the dividend investors because a lot of energy stocks pay

dividends and um uh it's going to kind of wreak havoc on that space so I'm pretty bearish I'm actually looking as one of my kind of discretionary trades is actually short the energy stock space um in the near future because I think it's going to drop over 450% and it's going to be pretty Swift which is um people don't see it coming for some reason everybody's really bullish on energy stocks um and they're expecting high oil and all kinds of craziness I I just don't see it and the weakness in

energy and the pattern that's forming on the energy stock charts um are very bearish okay yeah yeah I will say that is the opposite it of what I've I've heard from some other people so good to get the the contrarian view there as well okay so I also we have to get an update on what you're doing with Bitcoin so you said in December this was you got into this because it was a c Miss trade you hadn't done it for a while uh you were looking at I think 10 18,700 that was maybe the getting out

Target so where where you at now yeah so bitcoin's not not something I trade very often this the first time in like a decade and um when you look at the monthly of it it was just the most beautiful pattern it had multiple patterns had a cup and handle had a bull flag pattern both of them point to a huge rally um Not only was the chart looking really good but it's a herd mentality trade meaning like the whole world is in on bitcoin um grandparents are buying with their credit cards it's

everywhere right like and I I was just saying this is a pattern that it shows strength and if it starts to break out it's going to be headline news and everybody's going to start yelling it's going to go to 100K and so I told everybody I said listen this is a quick trade it's 40% upside it should go really quickly because the whole world's going to Pile in and it's just a bunch of fomo Traders driving it in like piling in right and that's what happened we got in and we sold at um I used

Fibonacci extensions so we sold our first Target at about a 14% gain and then we closed the rest out at um a, 10,8 700 and it only went a couple hundred higher and then it's reversed back down so it hit a a measured move and so we're we're back in cash I don't really care if it goes higher or not um the key with with trading is to find a chart pattern uh play the trade get out of the trade wait for a new picture to be painted on the charts a lot of people get into a winner and they're like well

I don't want to get out it's doing so well um and they don't sell it and eventually like Bitcoin can fizzle out it could come right back down and if the stock market sells off it still has a positive correlation with the NASDAQ so if the stock market crashes Bitcoin is most likely going to crash and when it pops and and shoots straight up it usually comes straight back down so that's kind of one of the reasons we don't hold onto stuff so um the key is just to wait for a fresh new trade and

see how it turns up okay Chris you're done you're out of Bitcoin Don it was just a oneand done get in make the money move out it was just play the emotions okay very very merciless with that one okay and so that was really a speculative trade that you were looking at any other speculations that you like right now not really no just the energy space I'm I'm actually interested in buying an inverse ETF on the energy space who knows in in a month or two whenever the chart pattern unfolds but

um that's it I'm I'm not one for taking big speculation I'd much rather um move into the dollar or move into bonds something slower uh than like Bitcoin or something like that that's fast moving I like slow and easy because I usually put all my money into one investment at a time whichever asset is the strongest that meets our criteria we move in and we trade it um and I like things that move fairly slow so that if it doesn't work out it doesn't shocker account okay it makes a lot of sense and okay I'm

going to throw in a question maybe it's an interesting question we'll find out so just because we're here at a conference where we've got all these Junior miners down on the floor I they I don't think they'll be a fit for you but when you're doing your technical analysis looking at the charts does technical analysis still work for them or do they move too erratically because they're so small they still they still work I mean I that's what I used to trade I mean I used to be the golden oil

guy and that was all I traded was gold stocks so I I love the gold space I own a lot of physical gold it works on everything technical analysis works on everything the thing with the smaller the company or the stock you go the more volatile it is um it's a little bit more noisy and it's not quite as accurate because you have like press releases you got people pumping and dumping stocks it depends on how small of stocks you go right so as you go from like an index which is big and stable with a rising or

falling tie to individual tiny little micro caps that have news and newsletters writing about about them right like it creates a lot of noise so it works but there's a lot of noise and it's easy to get shaken out uh from a rally or a drop and so it's it's more difficult for sure okay okay yeah that helps a lot I think Okay so we've covered a lot of ground I think quite quickly but before I let you go any any thoughts you would end on heading into the rest of the year I think the key

really this year is to be happy with not losing money I mean it sounds so boring but if what unfolds what I think is going to unfold it's either you lose 30 or 50% of your wealth you sit in cash sit near fat do and happy making four and a half or three and a half percent or you take advantage of a strategy that can benefit from falling markets and and I'm all about avoid the chaos and continue to earn some interest we let everything reset and take advantage of some of the falling prices so if the stock market

crashes eventually bonds should come to life so there's opportunities to be long bonds or currencies um and people need to be I think in the mindset it's not about trying to make money this year they need to focus on not losing their shirt and that's because that crash is that crash feels like it's it's pending it's I mean I've been talking about for a long time and it hasn't come yet and the can keeps getting kicked down the road but eventually it's going to happen

and it um yeah you really just have to be ready for it okay I think that that'll be a tough pill for some people to swell will will see by but I think a good note to end on so thank you so much really good to as I said see you in person for the first time and hope the rest of the show goes well for you thanks appreciate it okay and once again I'm Charlotte McLoud with investing news.com and this is Chris from Mulan [Music]