thank you I'm Charlotte McLeod with investingnews.com and security with me is Will rind CEO of granite shares thank you so much for joining me great to have you on again yeah thank you Charlotte great to be on thanks so much for having me back of course really good to be catching up with you I was looking back at our previous interview and it was actually all the way back in March so there's a lot to go over since then I think one of our topics at that time was the fed's capacity to raise rates


and of course when we were speaking at that time we just had the banking crisis and I think everybody was thinking well the FED really can't go any further or very much further so I want to check in on that we have actually seen the FED raise rates and I'm wondering your thoughts on how they've been able to get as far as they have been given I think many people thought that this wouldn't be the case I think particularly around the banking crate this that you know that was contained


um so now let's just say um with obviously the combination of banks being taken over all banks been absorbed into much larger organizations like the JP Morgan's in this world so yeah there was definitely some significant concern that time but you know the market was able to move past that I think um that plus other factors you know provided some Headroom to raise rates but I mean again we're not talking about a significant uplift from from where we were um last time very good point we haven't actually


risen a huge amount since that previous discussion and you know coming up later this month beyond the fed's next meeting so of course we've got to talk about what we might see there it sounds like the consensus is that we will see rates stay flat wondering your thoughts and maybe if we look Beyond this meeting as well because we should also be considering what may come later this year yeah I don't um at this stage have any reason to believe that it will be anything other than I think what the


market expects which is no news uh specifically around the hikes um so I don't think I don't think there's going to be much coming out of this particular meeting and I think even towards the end of the year despite some of the rhetoric we've heard from some of the governors um again I I only see the probability of a rate hike happening um if clearly there's some data to suggest that inflation's on the app um again or something that you know provide some capitalist for them to read


interest rates but I but I do think that by and large or the top of the cycle um and you know we are kind of on on the way down albeit um you know not sort of immediately and in your view is is the soft Landing scenario is that Within Reach at this point definitely within reach I mean think about where we were at the beginning of the year where you know really everyone was calling for an imminent recession or were um that hasn't been the case and I think that you know so far the market has been very resilient


um earnings have stayed strong and you know the the economy is doing fine I mean clearly there are areas for concern particularly around real estate Etc um and so that that is one area which you know could could spot um a broader a broader concern or even recession I think for now it's okay um but you know providing I think that we don't have you know something a big dislocation in the pop of the economy effect and economy I think it is it is on the table yeah it's been very interesting to watch


that narrative progress to where we thought definitely it was going to be a hard Landing to now or okay maybe not maybe it is actually going to be fine as as people have been telling us it will be so on that note I want to also look at what's going on with gold because when we talk about gold often what I hear is you know it's kind of tied to wow the FED will turn around there's going to be something dramatic happen and this is what's going to propel gold higher but if we're heading into this


scenario where maybe we don't see that happen what do you see coming for gold I think more of the same that we have theme which is being very resilient um around you know for the last six months of them including gold has performed well this year all things been equal but I think the pricing can be very resilient against this backdrop all you know Rising rate and clearly last year you know gold held its own when pretty much everything else lost money um one thing to think about I think is the gold is poised quite nicely here in


my view because the programming narrative that you hear sometimes that um when the feds start cutting rate that's going to be really good for stocks and therefore really bad for gold another necessarily sure that the case I wouldn't think about you know what the conditions might be to cause the FED to cut rate and I think that you know cutting rate probably means that we are either heading for a recession or we're in a recession out now recession so therefore I'm not sure that is actually


the market where stocks go higher and it is a market where we see a traditional flight equality or flight to safety and people come in and buy gold I think gold is actually fitting quite nicely here yeah and that would track well with kind of the the opposite scenarios that we seem to be seeing in the markets lately where things usually need one thing start to mean something else so very interesting for gold I wonder of course the FED we like to talk about the FED when it comes to code that's


important other factors that you're watching for gold right now though that people might be forgetting has say as they focus on the Fed well I think the big one is the dollar and the Really Trend that we've seen kind of from frankly about now a year so in summer last year when the dollar peaked um and really had been on a downward Trend you know since then and gold what do you think about what is the best head against the falling dollar your goal is really the um asset that people go to and certainly


one of the top ones um that people think about when they think about what is a hedge to a weakening or a falling dollar so I think that's a big factor um Again part of that is you know super macro Trend that you know will be very much dependent on what happens with interest rate manipulation um but that's something as well let's be very supportive of gold certainly over the last year yes and when it comes to the dollar I've started to hear particularly over this past summer a lot of narratives around


the slow kind of move toward the dollarization how do you see that playing into what's going on with the dollar is that something you're you're factoring in no definitely um I think it's it's clearly something that's happening the big question is not whether it's happening or not the big question is just how much impact it will ultimately have um so that's really the big question it's already way too early to really say or or to denote any kind of real impact


although clearly when it comes to Gold typically you know we note that central banks continue to be big buyers of gold um the q1 this year with the record uh in terms of Central Bank buying so that is part of the dollarization in other words diversifying foreign exchange Holdings into authentic foreign exchange Holdings in US Dollars let's just I should say into alternative currencies of which gold is clearly in that mix um as an alternative to the dollar right and you mentioned you know central


banks be think buyers of gold I think we've been hearing a lot about that you also have a good handle I think on kind of retail investor demand for gold with the ETF background at Granite share so I wonder what are you seeing from the smaller buyers of gold is there is there that interest as well or people maybe a little bit less interested when we're at this this historically elevated level yeah I I think the big Trend or at least the the trend this year has been that from an investment perspective people


that have been largely um withdrawing money um from EPS so you know gold ETFs of have had outflows you know broadly speaking year to day and I think that goes hand in hand with the narrative that people well positioned for an eminent Market you know collapse or recession at the beginning of the year that didn't materialize and so people have kind of been caught a little bit from a performance perspective on the sidelines you know being kind of Chase the market up um and therefore trying to reallocate


you know as we go along so we have seen um some let's just say muted um investment demand um for gold but I think that goes hand in hand with clearly what's been happening in the broader Market which is people have missed the rally or at least be under invested and therefore I've had to chase the rally upwards from a performance perspective right I think it's it's good to have that contact text there and so you know I think our audience probably knows Granite share is best for its gold and other Commodities


ETFs but we're going to talk today about some of the new products the company is offering which are single stock ETFs so you have some recent news around there but before we start talking about that I want to ask you to explain exactly what single stock ETFs are and how they work because you know I think people generally when they think of an ETF they think okay this is a way to get broad exposure to a sector so how does it work when it's focused on a single company yeah no absolutely so put simply it's an


ETF that provides exposure typically leveraged exposure although it can be short um or short leveraged or leveraged short exposure to a single company so in a way it's funny because when you think about you know Granite shares as product line it's not too different from what we already do because gold is a single underlying or platinum is a single underlying and so you have had that um for for many many years in the market and other Commodities single Commodities as well so extending that to single


stock um you know it ain't really a big leap but yeah it's a way for people to have leverage exposure to individual companies within an ETF so the all the benefits that an ETF brings um but instead of getting exposure to a broad index where you might have 100 companies in it or 500 companies um it's leveraged exposure to one company all right and so so these would probably be for a person who who maybe has a strong conviction one way or another on a particular stock absolutely it's for high conviction


clearly the highest conviction um Investments you can make because it's a on a single stock but B typically leveraged on a single stop so whether you're thinking about you know going over the earnings season or you have a particular you know particular view on the movement for the stock view on the long on the short side it's a way to implement that view with a level of conviction that clearly goes beyond just buying the stock itself right and I like the comparison you made to ETFs focused


on you know gold because it isn't actually perhaps that different than that you're focusing on a single element there so we'll talk about the new single stock ETF set Granite shares has launched so I believe they're focused on some of the very popular stocks right now like AMD Tesla and Nvidia so these are stocks that may already have some volatility within them and I wonder how you would recommend investors approach these products how should you be trading or investing in these products


well in a way um so you think about the ETF universe or the ETF portfolio that we offer so we offer um commodity-based ETFs that on single Commodities we offer equities we offer you know income based portfolio and then we offer the levered um single stock Investments as well so really try and appeal to not just the Buy and Hold investor but the short term or the shorter term or active trade or active investor and so with a lot of these individual companies it's been kind of fascinating story because this year


clearly the the action if you want to call it that in terms of performance has been in these large Tech names and that largely what we have delivered to the market so if you look at Nvidia which is probably the star of the show in terms of what we offer our nvdl which is the 1.5 times Lebanon video is up around 400 year-to-date so that's one of the best performing ETFs in the market um now obviously that I've taken advantage of the Nvidia AI Story the amazing performance of Nvidia but Amber


you know with a with a turn of Leverage on on top you know it's really added to that performance but we have companies like Tesla where we offer uh 1.5 uh 1.75 times uh exposure to Tesla um and then on the short side as well to other companies like coinbase which can be a proxy for crypto or Alibaba which can be a proxy for China or Chinese PEC more specifically um there's a range of different companies um that people can get exposure to yeah that's pretty pretty interesting so a little bit more high


risk High reward when it comes to you know the ETF sector they're really interesting so would you consider launching more of these in the future is that is that in the cards it is it's a really active segment of the market so I think that particularly in these conditions where I don't think that I think it's fair to say that people perhaps don't have like a huge conviction I mean one of the people I mean the market probably in terms of Direction one way or the other and we have been in a volatile Market where we


have big up days and big down games and so it does lend itself much more to people who are more tactical and are very comfortable being more tactical in this market and so we've been a huge demand for these products now obviously it goes hand in hand but there's already a huge demand for those unblanked stocks I mean we're talking about some of the most popular stocks in the world that that people know and people own and have a very strong view in terms of those docs and when to buy when to sell and


that I think is just carried over into the leveraged into a stock portfolio that we run and you know providing people with them and built leverage or if it's short indeed the ability to go short with an ETF which is very difficult to do um you know in order to ordinary circumstances yeah I think there this is a very interesting option that people might want to consider so thank you for going over how that all works just before we wrap up I want to make sure to touch on Platinum as well because this


is a metal that we've spoken about before and I remember you were feeling bullish on this sector so recently we had the world Platinum investment Council come up with its latest quarterly report they're now predicting a deficit this year I believe up above 1 million ounces and I think that'll be the highest on record if it ends up happening so I want to check in with you on Platinum and in your feelings toward the sector because I know we have prices despite this potential deficit kind of hovering in a


range-bound kind of territory that's right and condom's been doing that you know for a few years um which makes it again great if people are willing to to trade it a little bit because it has been so range bound but I think what we're really all interested in is when does it break out of that range and when does you know Platinum really start to accelerate to the upside again of course many people that have followed precious metals for a long time will remember the days when Platinum


traded at a premium to gold and indeed became so much the case that in the English language we associate the world the word platinum with above gold the platinum credit card being better than a gold credit card etc etc um so we haven't seen those days for quite a long time and we were waiting for for those days to come back um but I think again I I think that I remain positive on Platinum you know the deficit is clearly a positive for for those investing in the sector I mean when you look at commodity fundamentals


if a commodity has more demand but it has Supply then you know all things been equal that that should be a good thing I think what's been challenging for platinum is this sort of you know recessionary narrative or this you know economic malaise um that seems to be creepy but particularly applying to China because that's you know obviously a big market for platinum because the demand that I think everything on the commod in the commodity spectrum that largely linked to the Chinese story um has been affected by their economic


world this year and so I think we need them signs of life from the Chinese market that you know the stimulus packages or more stimulus that will be injected surely between now and the end of the year and will spark some kind of of a recovery but yeah but for now um you know the price of platinum has come down you know fairly significantly down towards the bottom of these ranges that we've seen over the last few years not as bad as Palladium um which has been you know absolutely hammered but but still uh Platinum price


is a down um versus where they were really interesting and you know you mentioned Palladium I wanted to round out our discussion on precious metals by hopefully looking a little bit about Palladium and silver see what you see coming in in 2023 because it's always good to get the full look at the sector there yeah I mean I think I think the key for the pgms or at least for platinum and Palladium is you know a a more robust economic footing globally I mean Auto demand has been strong um and clearly that's the biggest source


of demand for both of these Metals so continued strength from the auto sector will benefit those Market um a deficit situation in Platinum also helps Palladium within a deficit as well or perhaps not so much now um but I think really it's a larger economics where they're much more correlated to the business cycle and so a big pickup um in economic activity should benefit both those Metals but particularly from China Philip filbert is is is similar but silver does benefit from the fact that


there's a monetary metal as well and so that's why I think you haven't seen the prices still fall apart and it's been a little bit more resilient around the sort of 23 25 announced level so a little bit my gold it's sort of playing more in the same exam box as gold at the moment and it still has the benefit like like Platinum does of course that it's used in a lot of the new technologies um particularly obviously in the case of silver solar and other renewable Technologies which are going to be so


important for the energy transition over the next few years um so from that perspective you know there's a lot of a lot of things to be positive about um but I think again some of the some of the sort of economic Malay um that kept the price of platinum and Palladium kind of in in constraint has also affected you know silver with its Pro cyclical properties yeah certainly it becomes easy to see how they're all interconnected in their own different ways so that wraps up everything I was wanting to know from you today but did


you have any final thoughts that you would leave the audience with I think that um you know things are probably a little bit better than people think um in terms of the market I think that um could end up probably higher than where we are today not sure there's necessarily any massive surprises coming that the rest of this year I think gold is in in a good position um because of this you know narrative if you will that when things stop when if it's not cutting rate I think that's actually bad news


for the market not good news and I think they'll stimulate some investment demand for gold uh in that particular circumstance which you know hopefully will help in terms of moving the profile all right I think that's a good takeaway to end on so thank you so much for coming on to go over what's happening in the precious metals markets today thank you to all over the pleasure of course and once again I'm Charlotte McLeod with investingnews.com and this is Will Ryan of granite shares


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