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 thank you I'm Charlotte McLeod with the investing News Network and here today with me is Jordan roybarton editor and publisher at the daily gold thank you so much for joining me great to see you I hope thank you so much for having me Charlotte it's a pleasure really excited to be speaking with you and since it is our first time talking I wanted to begin by asking where you see gold in the current cycle I think it's a pretty good question because it's getting a little bit confusing with the

metal near its all-time high right now yeah it's a really good question in talking about the cycle you know there are a lot of people who say that well this new secular bull market in Gold began at the 2015 low but I don't think that's correct because in a secular bull market uh the market that you're talking about it really needs to make higher highs consistently and then it needs to make a new all-time high so in secular bull markets you see I mean unless something is completely bond out

then it can take a while for it to make a new all-time high like gold was in the early 2000s but given where we are here and now and where gold was in 2015 2016. uh if the secular will begin then then gold would have already blasted through a two thousand twenty one hundred it also I would say when gold is in a secular bull market the the stock market specifically is in a secular bear so even though gold has performed well since 2015 2016 the problem is since then U.S bonds have moved higher you've

made one I mean until recently made money at bonds you know that 40 year old everybody talks about the stock market has still been in a secular Bowl so when you look at those things um they they tell you um that gold is not at least you know until very recently we could say well gold is not yet in a secular pool and when you see a market make a multi-decade breakout and you know break out asset kind of resistance make new all-time highs which gold is when we came within like a hair of doing that last week

um so gold is on the cusp of doing that I think when that happens like it's almost 100 confirmed gold is in a new secular bull so um I I think it's very exciting I mean I'd compare it to the late 60s early 70s in that the move that gold and precious metals in general will be starting or have already started if you go back to last year uh that I mean it it's on the Cusco of a new secular bull market and one additional point about why in the last five or six years we weren't in a

secular Vault just look at look at Silver and look at this the gold and silver stocks they recovered with gold but I mean they're still completely bombed out they've been underperforming gold generally so that that's not a characteristic of a secular bull so the the cycle that we're in now I mean we are at a I mean a fascinating just an incredible point because goal once it can take out 2100 and really start to move you know regardless of whether that happens in a day or two or a month or two or it takes

three four five six months we are starting what I think is going to be the most significant move in this sector and Industry in the last 50 years it's an extremely exciting point in time that we're at it is really exciting and I think that helps us situate kind of where we're at with gold right now one of the things that caught my attention about your work is you're laying out time frames where we could Sequel and make particular moves and one of those is four thousand dollar gold by 2025 which would

basically double the price of where we are today so I wondered if you could lay out how you see us getting to that point well there's a couple reasons for that first of all gold is in a very bullish cup and handle pattern um and aside from it being uh a cup and handle pattern you go back to the last peak of 2011 and yes gold made a new high in 2020 but I mean from there it's correct in two and a half years so um you know because the gold essentially hasn't had that Breakout and it's been 12 years since it's really

surpassed that high and so when you look at markets like gold in the stock market other markets when they have these breakouts when they break past you know 10 15 12 13 year resistance they give way to new secular moves and they're really really bullish and so cup and handles historic I mean you don't tend to see they tend to be you know like at a one-year chart or six month chart you tend to see them a lot on those time frames they're very rare in you know a 10 15 year time frame like

the one written out a couple comparable ones uh Hong Kong the Hang sang they're Marketing in the 70s and 80s wasn't as clean of a cup and handle as this one is but I mean that market broke out I think in the early 80s and then it just went crazy for the next couple years he had the 87 then it kept running after that so that I mean that gave way to a real strong period of performance same thing with the stock market 1937 to 1950 a similar cup of handle pattern stock market had a great breakout and from 49

to 57 was probably the best eight year period for stocks ever because during that period of time you had this very clean stable uptrend and I think there was only one downturn of 23 25 so these types of patterns I mean you can there's a there's a simple measured upside Target where you take the depth of the cut then you add it to the top and that gets us around three thousand I mean if some people are saying 2 800 2900 I mean that's where they're getting those targets from but if you also take the

depth of the cup as a percentage and then you apply that that depending on what which levels you pick because the cup and handle is not perfectly cleat I mean you could have anywhere from 37.50 to 4100 when you say four thousand like I've been saying against a lot of attention so that I mean that that's why I'm saying four thousand but um now those other two company handles that I mentioned they hit the first Target the measured upside which would be three thousand per volt and then in six to 12

months they went to the next Target the long Target which is like the percentage Target So based on that you could say you know gold if it hits 3 000 it could hit four thousand sooner than we think and not to belabor the point but there's another important reason why I think this is possible if you look at molds historically one thing I like to do on charts is just run a rate of change at the bottom I'll plug in two years or three years or two and a half years they can look and see okay well there's been

a handful of times gold has doubled in two and a half years or you know it's got up 150 percent in three or three and a half years and if you look at uh I think a two and a half year period um gold even in the 2000s bull market so we're not talking about the 70s which is really crazy even in the 2000s bull market gold doubled or I think it came very close to doing so within a two and a half year period so taking the low from last year and um you know doubling that low puts us I think pretty close to 3 300 uh but I

mean there's certain you know I don't have the charts in front of me but basically you know making this projection that gold can hit it can go from that low to hit 4 000 which would be a three you know about a three year period from that low in October 22 uh to October 25 because I've said 4025. uh based on historical performance from the 2000s it's really not that crazy of a prediction and so if people think that and they're saying all the gold bugs are saying Gold's gonna go to ten thousand

eight thousand nine thousand twenty thousand whatever we have the setup now where the next couple years like this is the time where it really if that's going to happen then it's probably going to start based on the Move that's just starting right now all right so 4 000 by 2025 I think you're totally right people like to see those big wrong numbers people also I think would be curious to know what you see coming in 2023 because that's a more short-term specific time period for gold

well I think right now in the short term uh I mean gold technically it's it's got really overbought the stocks have gotten really overbought um but like like I said earlier you know weather Gold corrects for a little while or it takes you know three or four or five months from now I think it's setting up where it's gonna blast through 2100 and then really really run on the fundamental side you know that the Federal Reserve is coming to the end of hiking interest rates and the market

has been sniffing that out I mean in the last couple days or some indications that you know and maybe you know some some inflation statistics are not dropping as much as they would like but the real the real setup for gold is and it'll it might take a little time to get there but the real setup is the economy is going to fall into recession at some point you know I would probably say summer around you know sometime in the third quarter maybe it's a little or maybe it's a little after but when that

happens I think the issue is you're not going to see inflation fall all the way down to one or two percent they want to get it to go maybe it maybe it comes down to three or four percent but but in the economy in a recession in that scenario people and I think it's already starting to change the sediment people are getting more concerned with growth now even though inflation is still you know whatever the stats are it's still a problem and as it come down so the the major point which I'm dancing

around is we're going to get to a point the FED is where they have no choice but they're going to have to cut interest rates and ease policy when inflation is not all the way back down to one or two percent so if they're easing policy when inflation is at four percent or three and a half percent and they have to you know print money in that situation that's just super boost for gold and that aligns technically with where the market is out of you know because we're tightly in a point where the market can

really explode and so it the when the FED is forced to do that I I think the market is already starting to sniff that out but when it actually happens that's why gold is really going to fly because it's a situation where it's just okay we have to pick the lesser of two evils we all want to go into a depression we're just gonna have to cut rates and print lot in and inflation's gonna go up and we're just going to have to deal with it great and that leads into a question that I wanted to ask you which is you

know you're clearly very focused on charts technical analysis how or to what extent do you weigh things like the FED interest rates inflation into your analysis when you're when you're looking at the price of gold and things like that well I weigh those things a lot into my analysis and I mean to be a good analyst or at least have an understanding or a handle on where the market can move why it's moving you have to understand what are the fundamentals driving it and then you also have to look at the technicals and

so when you get the two are in a line they're both telling you something is really bullish then you know you have a good handle on what might happen it's when you're you know weather kind of out of sorts and you're you have a fundamental Viewpoint that you know gold is going to crash we're going to see this huge move down and you're looking at the technicals and you know the technicals show you this is the most bullish setup ever basically for gold technically and so the Larkin is sniffing out something and

so you have to get a handle on fundamentally you know where real interest rates going because gold I mean it typically follows it's inversely correlated uh to real interest rates and so you know I think like I was saying before I think fundamentally we're moving towards a situation where certainly the FED will have to cut and real interest rates will go down uh which is good for gold and inflation is still you know too high even at three and a half or four percent and so that's also good for gold when you get that

um you kind of get that stat equationary situation and a lot of people were calling for that last year uh or the year before but you know gold really needs the other asset classes to do poorly or really struggle to do well and so in 2021 you know inflation was really high and it looked like we had stag question but employment was still high the economy was still growing and so that's not stag pollution stagflation is when you have high inflation High inflation the economy is really struggling and um you

know people are getting fired unfortunately um so and you have to you have to look at all these things and kind of match them with the technical so I am dead even though you know charts is my credit butter I'm definitely not someone who's only going to look at the charts and say I don't care about fundamentals you really have to put the two together to have a better understanding of what's going on and the probabilities of what life becoming I think that makes total sense so thanks

for explaining how you think about that I think it's really helpful one thing I wanted to talk about is you know of course as you're outlining there's this really bullish setup for gold and I think there is excitement building in the market but people are also a little bit hesitant I think you know they may have been hurt by gold before they've seen it above 2000 and it's Fallen back and they're not sure whether to believe that this is really the time that we need to break that high and we go much

higher so what would you say to those people I mean is there anything that would throw gold off the track that you see it on right now I I think I think it's a timing issue I mean the the thing that could throw gold off the track and I would say push the breakout further out is if let's say the FED is able to hike I don't know you know a couple more times and they're able to get to six percent maybe the economy is still growing a tiny bit and you know unemployment is not quite Rising it so if what we've kind of been

seeing I mean if these issues persist and the economy just kind of you know hangs around or hangs at the curl level without falling into recession it that would happen I think and let's say that lasts into the end of the year I think that's a scenario where um you would see um gold would probably correct and consolidate a while from here I don't know maybe it would fall into the 1800s I don't agree with the scenario that everything's going to crash and and you're gonna have this deflationary

crash I I don't see that happening I mean that's a whole another interview but I will say people yeah people are scarred I mean I call it the 2008 movie everybody is worried about this and nobody thinks of in 2001 2002 in that scenario where you know we had this big Tech bubble evaluation bubble it was a drawn out bear Market you know gold was coming off the bottom other Commodities were going up so there's a lot of similarities to oh one and two and so I would encourage people to go look at

what happened what the stock market really fell in those years and how precious metals performed I think that kind of sitting I think what we might see coming up uh it is going to be more similar to that and not 2008 and you know also a lot of people are looking for this big move down but let's just go well let's just go back a year ago and gold was down 20 at five months the the GDX was down 50 percent and five or five months then Junior's much worse so everybody's worried about this big move

down but I mean my idea was look this already happened it happened a year ago and so people are so and if you look at some sentiment indicators there's not too bullish of sentiment in the market right now because of you know because of your question because people are scarred they've lost a lot of money in juniors and they don't they don't think it can happen and I mean you know those things happening they kind of proceed um you know a major breakout in a new secular World Market and so ever you

know everybody now know down knows that gold stocks are bad basically they're terrible they're a bad investment but they're set they're setting the stage for a next decade which is going to be fabulous for bold stocks they're going to make an epic run because you're going to see gold have this huge breakout and run much much higher and uh you know the margins of these companies are going to expand in the next couple years at a record rate that we haven't seen in 50 plus years probably so that I won the

sentiment that we're seeing right now it's it's almost a perfect backdrop technically and you throw in this sentiment but I but you know as far as technically I can't tell you if it's going to happen in six months or you know one week or two weeks um but just big picture I think over the coming months I mean we're setting up for that huge breakdown and what people have to understand about the technicals the setup is there for this huge move over the next couple years I mean you get these big moves

when either you know a market crashes or you're coming out of a bad mirror market and things are down 50 70 percent uh and and they're just really oversold that's you know that that's a setup where you can see huge gains the other setup is when a market has been consolidating for a while or it's about to break past you know 10 12 13 year resistance those are the setups that give weight to these huge moves and so that's what people have to understand like the odds of this

sector making a really huge move are really high right now they're the highest they've been in decades okay I'm gonna come back to Gold stocks for sure before we finish this interview but I have one more question unquote that I want to ask you and it relates to how you're talking about this potential move back down that people have seem to expect I think it is getting confusing for people right now to know when they might want to buy because you'll always hear don't buy high but we're in this

scenario where gold is pretty close to its all-time high but also potentially poised to move much higher so any thoughts on on what we're seeing there and advice for for people on how to navigate that well I mean I I would say I mean if you're talking about buying gold and silver I think dollar cost averaging works really well even as a technical person you're never going to buy at the bottom or sell at the top right nobody can do that and there might be five or ten people in the world that can do that

and that's why they make billions of dollars I mean the rest of us Immortals we just have to use proper uh you know risk tolerance and follow our own proper rules where we try and use common sense and so I think they put the metals I think dollar cost averaging really works best if you're looking at individual stocks you know focus on the company uh because there's some companies that might if you're looking at the chart of those companies and and you're stuck a rhino horn that's gone straight up

there's more risk you don't want to buy those right now you want look for things that are fundamentally sound but maybe their stocks haven't performed that well and they're showing some weakness uh you have to be careful because you have to make sure that they're not weak because there's a huge fundamental change there but you know I I if you're looking at these stocks assess an individual Company by its fundamentals and um and yeah try and buy the ones that are not over extended and at the same time you

can also do the same thing with stocks if you're unsure you can say well I'm going to buy one third right now I'll wait a couple weeks and you know then I'll buy the other third if it goes lower if everything breaks out and starts running I'm going to buy another Fern at that point so you you have to do it in these types of ways because like I said nobody nobody has a crystal wall nobody can see in the future you even though a lot of people on Twitter will tell you they can uh but so you have to you have to follow

uh a plan and so I think dollar cost averaging or with stocks if you're buying in two or three tranches that's going to work best anything that makes total sense as a strategy so thanks for going through that touching a little bit more now on the gold and silver stocks so in your writing you said you want to be looking right now at gold and silver Juniors with 500 upside potential over the next years so I wonder if you could go into your selection process there the criteria that you like to see among

these companies because that can be very very tricky for people to try to determine runners yeah great question I mean for me in the last 20 years or so I've always made the most money with I would say silver companies or looking at Gold companies the smaller companies that have huge production growth potential and so uh but I was just in my premium update in the last weekend I was just going over okay if I'm right about the market where will these stocks go and some of these companies that have you know high margin

lines that can go from producing a hundred thousand to two or three hundred thousand uh ounces a year in the next two or three years I mean they're just going to be generating staggering cash flow so I I look for the small producers that really have it that had that have a chance to grow their production significantly over the next two or three years um and that could also include developers that are going to build the line if they're close enough to build it I I like those as well um silver stocks just have because if

you're in a real bull market and old's gonna make this run to 4 000 like I'm predicting the silver the silver is going to do better than that most likely and so the silver stocks will be leveraged even more and so um I think with silver stocks there's not a whole lot of producers I like there but I think smaller well this goes for bold stocks as well um on the exploration side if you can find small exploration companies that have potential to discover or Define or increase or you know enhance what they

already have they're trying to just they might have a little bit of a deposit they're trying to see if they can make it really big um see if they can add more value to it those are the types of situations I'm looking for and it's it's tough because you want to find at least what I try to look for is the Juniors that are they're slow enough that their market caps are not you know three four and 500 million already but at the same time they have to they have to be big enough in that they

already have a project or maybe there's some ounces there there's already good results so you know that there's some value already attached to it and so it has to fit those two criteria and then the third one which is the hardest which is you know nobody can predict is trying to figure out you know who if you have a really good deposit there maybe has a million or 1.2 million ounces can they take that to 3 million or 4 million it's really really hard to try and find those but I I mean I I try and do that with

the exploration uh what you know with the silver socks you have the Gold stock so I I look at those and then also the small companies that have production growth potential maybe they can go for 100 000 to two or three hundred thousand or fifty thousand to 150 or 200 and you know two more things I'll try and be quick the the uh the junior producers that they're not only are they bring production but at the same time they're reinvesting back into exploration trying to make a huge Discovery I mean

everybody remembers Kirk alike and its predecessors how they were producing and they made this huge world-class Discovery and so the stock went through the roof and so that's another way to play exploration is look look for the producers that are trying to make that huge discovery and because if they do it's it's it's almost free money because maybe they already have a mill there and so if if they make this huge Discovery they can just you know mine that and throw it in the bill and and you know they don't

build a whole new line implant and all those types of things um so there's that and then I I would avoid I mean development companies that they're not going to build the line um they're so they're they're I mean even if a lot of them are decent I mean they'll probably be acquired but you're not going to make 3x or 5x or 10x on those types of companies I mean unless they're really into the value there really has to be outstanding so the base focus on exploration in the junior

producers with production growth potential avoid developers that are not going to build the line okay I like that you threw in what to avoid as well I think that's that's definitely useful Before I Let You Go I want to throw in a question about silver because we've kind of been alluding to what could happen to the silver price in the event that gold does go all the way up to 4 000 as you're projecting so we know that silver tends to outperform so what is what does the path forward look

like for silver well if if I write about the 4 000 prediction the path forward for silver is going to be nuts basically uh it also if because if Gold's gonna have this secular over the next 10 15 years it's not only going to go to four or five thousand it's going to go much much higher than that but you know we can worry about that at you know three or four years when cold said four thousand or five thousand um so uh eventually in the next decade or so it could be nuts the levels that silver

gets to because when silver gets above 50 technically it's going to blow the roof off like it's it's gonna probably go to 100 much sooner than people think so you're going to see these real nutty moves in silver um so yeah you know gold gold typically leaves and one thing I'm studying and looking at I haven't finished it but I'm looking at the times when gold makes a really big breakout uh you know how does silver perform and it looks to me like those are the absolute biggest moons in

silver so if and when we see gold above 2100 you're going to see silver obviously can really explode now typically what happens is we tend to see gold make the breakout first I mean it's happened three or four times in in the history gold makes a breakout first and then silver after that makes its own breakout and then that's what it really really outperforms gold and so we have a setup for that because gold is really really close to making that breakout about 2100 while at the same time silver has a really

significant resistance at 27.28 I mean whether you're looking at a quarterly chart or monthly chart it's really stiff resistance there so I think we have to see gold make that break out first and then at some point I don't know if it's going to be a month later or four months later at some point later you'll see silver break back above that 27 28 29 area and that's the point when silver should really outperform and and really uh I think get into the 30s and get to 40 pretty quickly and probably back to 50

quickly so get I mean given you've given the goal targets of three thousand and four thousand I mean I tend to think that um if Gold's able to get close to 3 000 silver is probably going to be it's probably going to be pretty close to 50 at that point so overall you got to be careful you don't want to be greedy but silver could be really it really could be nuts over the coming years if we see this you know if what I'm talking about is on point and proves to be correct very interesting as we're wrapping up I

wonder if you had any final thoughts that you wanted to share with your audience or maybe let us know where we can find you if we want to learn more oh thank you so much for the opportunity well you can just go to my website at thedailyworld.com I have a lot of free info there I put I post interviews like these I also have a YouTube channel uh the daily gold I do lots of interviews I interview people myself and yeah I'll just say that we're like I said nobody can see the future but we're coming into a point in time

where the setup is there that's what people need to understand the setup is there for this Market this sector this industry to really go crazy on the upside over the next two or three years and I I can't tell you if it's if the goal is going to break 2100 tomorrow or it's going to be nine months or six months or three weeks or whatever I can't tell you that but you know based on everything we're talking about everything I'm looking at the setup is there for this Market to get really

explosive to the upside over the next couple years and so you know people should not be greedy just use common sense and try and find you know what I want what I try to do is find the stocks which I think are going to be performing the best because you don't want to be in stocks that are only going to go up you know 2x or 3x if everything else goes up 10x so like I said you don't want to be greedy you don't want to be Reckless but you do have to understand the setup is there for I don't want to say life changing

because that's I mean that's pretty extreme but the Senate was there for some potentially spectacular moves in these stocks in these Metals over the coming years okay I think that's a great place to wrap it up hopefully everyone can keep their common sense as this continues that's really hard to do but we'll see thank you so much for coming on to talk about what's going on in gold and silver and of course the stocks thank you so much for having me of course and once again I'm Charlotte

McLeod with the investingness network and this is Jordan Roy burn [Music] thank you