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  I'm Charlotte Mloud with investingnews.com and here today with me is Christopher Muan, chief market strategist at the technical traders.com. Thank you so much for being here. Great to have you in person. >> Yeah, thanks for having me. Always a pleasure. >> Yes. Yes. So, we're catching up at VR from our last conversation back in October. So, not too long ago, but a lot has changed for the metals. I think we had gold at 4,200 or so at that time. And >> we were talking then about how gold was

kind of getting into bubble territory. And of course, it has only continued going higher since then. We're nearly nearly at that 5,000 level. Maybe we'll be there by the time this goes live. So, >> what are your thoughts on that? What how how are you thinking about gold right now? Yeah, I mean gold, we've got a about a $5,200 upside target for gold. It's I would say it's in bubble phase, bubble territory. Well, maybe I would say it's kind of in bubble, but it's

also in a full-blown bull market. We're in the perfect storm for it. So, it is in a bull market phase. There are signs starting to show up that is a little bit frothy. A little bit of a bubble is starting. The general public is really starting to pile in. Retail investors are moving in uh to gold and silver. So that is always a little bit of a warning sign, but you don't jump ship just because of a warning sign, right? The the trend is still very strong to the upside. I think there's potential a lot

higher to go before we might see it have a a significant pullback and pause before it wants to go a whole lot higher. >> Well, let's talk a little bit more about your targets for gold in that case. So you mentioned 5,200 and definitely I've heard some exciting gold price targets here at the conference, but even mainstream entities I think are raising their price targets for gold. So what are you seeing? >> Well, we're in that that that zone where everybody's we're we're getting close to

the target. So we've all put right and I follow price action. I don't have a real bias on anything. I just follow price up and once a target is hit, I look at the charts. We recalibrate to figure out where the next target is going to be. But we are seeing, as you just mentioned, everybody's starting to raise their targets and it's it's fun. It's a feeding frenzy. Everybody in the space, we're all making a ton of money. Silver feels like it goes up 6% every day. It feels like. So, I mean, it's exciting.

And of course, to keep that going and for people to keep buying, generally, people are going to keep raising their pricing, their their targets, right? Nobody wants to say like sell gold or it's topping here or the run is over. That nobody wants to hear that. So, people just keep putting out new targets. And um that's I think what we're starting to see because everybody's targets are pretty much being hit. So they need new ones. >> Well, I do I will ask you about when to sell gold because I think I think

conversations here are also centering on when to take profits. So what has your approach been in this environment for gold? >> Yeah. So we're long gold and silver. I've been long gold and silver for a long time. But, you know, at some point once you hit one of these kind of these bubble phases, which I I still think we're going to see a very big surge in gold and silver pricing, but now that we're starting to enter this bubble phase, technical analysis doesn't quite work as well. You can't pick a market

top or a bottom, and bubbles are very unpredictable. We could see gold rally and stall out at 5200 because that's what the charts are showing, but we could see a lot of people pile in, and we could see gold spike to 6,000. Could go higher. Silver could go dramatically higher as well. So, the key is to eventually realize that I need to lock in some profits, protect some of my growth. The last thing you want to do is give it all back. Um, and so really, we're getting ready to start scaling out

of some of our precious metals, locking in gains, moving up our stops, start honing in on the intraday charts to get a feel for this capitulation. Once we see a peak start to happen or closer signs that we're in a peak, then we'll start trimming off. And you have to be comfortable to be like, I'm fine selling some of it and locking in profits and I'm fine if it runs without me with some of it. I don't need to capture it all. And everybody always wants to make as much as they can. They don't want to

sell it until it peaks or they never want to sell it, a lot of people, but um I'm happy with locking in big gains and knowing that at some point it will pause and have some big pullback. uh even if it doesn't have a big pullback. Eventually, it's going to trade sideways for months or years potentially and build a new launch pad for the next major leg higher. So, I like to own things when they're breaking out and they start a run. We get in, we play these big moves, and then we start to

trim profits, lock in gains, and we know we can buy it back later, hopefully at a lower price, sometimes it's at a higher price, but when we get in, it's usually already starting to run and we get returns right away. I don't want to hold gold for five or 10 years and it goes nowhere, right? So, it's all about keep being efficient. And so, we have to zoom into those intraday charts to see the crazy volume and feel and read the sentiment of retail investors piling in. I mean, people are going to Costco and

the post office, this buy the silver rounds and and stuff. So, that's uh that's late stages, you know, where everybody's piling in and the precious metals market is tiny. So, it doesn't take a lot of people to push it higher. >> Well, yes. And maybe you could talk a little bit more then about signs of a top. So you mentioned a couple of them that we might be seeing right now. What else would you flag? >> I mean there's a couple kind of more macro pictures like the AI space. I I

believe the economic climate is changing the economy. I think we're going to see a big shift in the overall strength of the economy. And once that shift starts to turn roll over, >> naturally it's going to think pull on the precious metals space. Right now I think we're seeing the AI space, the stock market starting to show signs of a top. And when we do get this first bout of selling in stocks, I think we could see a 10 or 20% pullback. That first selloff in the stock market, I think all

that money is going to go right into precious metals. We saw this in 2007. Money's always looking for a return. Comes out of stocks and it goes into whatever is moving the most, right? So, I think we're going to see precious metals have a big push when the stock market starts to break down. Um, yeah. Does that answer your question? >> Yeah. And we have talked about how uh rollover for the stock market is due and yet it it really has been able to be pushed off for quite some time. So do

you do you have any thoughts on what is allowing it to continue? Maybe a timeline for when we actually start seeing that. >> It's tough. I mean it it looks and feels like the stock market is ready to top like any day, any month. Like I think we're within like a couple months here. what silver and gold are doing and the sentiment overall through all the indicators and tools that we have, it's telling us like we are like potentially weeks away from the stock market topping from gold having and silver having this

huge final push higher. Uh so I think we're really really close and I think people just need to be aware that um at some point you're going to have to want to lock in some gains, but the equities markets are showing signs of of of some distribution selling going on and you need to be aware of it. >> Let's take a look at silver as well. There's a lot of focus on gold, which is close to that 5,000 level, but silver had its own major milestone just a couple of days ago, getting to triple

digits for the first time ever. So, let's talk about what you see coming for silver as well. >> Silver, I have a 106 upside target, which I saw 103 on Friday, so we are darn close to that. Uh, based on charts and Fibonacci, that is where silver should run into some overhead resistance. Now, mind you, silver is a high momentum play. A lot of people are moving into it. It's cheaper than gold. It's easier for people to buy rounds. They're available everywhere um for the retail traders. So, I think I

think we're seeing a lot of momentum in the silver space. And I think we're going to blast past 106. I think we could see silver hit 110, 120. It might even spike up to like 140 in the next month or two. So, there's a lot of potential. The question, we're in a bubble, right? So, it's like where's the top? When does the when does it burst? And I don't I don't quite feel the full-on feeding frenzy and the FOMO yet. I think there's room for a lot more people to still push metals higher. And

um so that's that's where we're at. I believe in the next month or two we're probably going to see a peak in metals and we will be scaling out and moving out of them which is going to be probably the opposite of what everybody else is thinking and doing. >> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if that would be a popular sentiment definitely here at this conference. So but that's that's interesting. just a little bit more on silver while we're there. So 106, but we could go way past it. And

>> I want to ask just a little bit more because the triple digit level that's very psychological for people. And you mentioned that there's room for more people to come in, but in this sector, I'm definitely seeing people saying, well, I think it's time for me to sell even some of my physical silver. >> Yeah, it's interesting. There is a lot of people saying that a surprisingly there's quite a few people saying they want to start selling and that that almost makes me believe that we've

broken the $100 mark. People start are starting to think they want to sell. I also feel like that it means we're going to go higher if people are looking to lock in. Usually people don't want to lock in gains when something's and so it's interesting that those I mean people people here are a little more savvy. I think they understand there's cycles and waves. So locking in at the psychological level 100 is a very psychological number. A lot of people are probably saying, "If it gets to 100,

I'm going to sell some silver." And that's the same with gold. It's stuck under that 5,000 level. A lot of people around the world will be gold hits 5,000, that is a huge level. So, there'll be people trimming off, locking in gains, probably some people shorting at those whole numbers, but um I do think we're going to see silver continue to go higher. It's broken through this psychological number. It'd be nice to see it hold above it for more than a day or two. Um, obviously a week or so above

it would be significant, but um, I think we're going to see it push higher because the momentum in this space, it's, you know, gold's a big slowmoving beast. It's expensive. It's hard to get into it without buying just tiny little things. Um, so silver gets all that attention and of course it's moved the most percentage- wise. So, it's got momentum on its side and I think it has more potential upside percentage than gold for sure. >> All right. So going back to the top in

gold and silver that you see coming. I mentioned I don't think that's going to be a popular sentiment. However, I am also seeing people looking at what's happening. They are wanting to take profits which is why I wanted to talk to you about that and they're also looking for all right what's the next bull market? Where can I rotate to? So what would your thoughts be? >> Yeah that's that's the tough one. So I think it's great that people want to lock in profits. We're about to do that.

The key is to not get FOMO when it shoots higher, to not get sucked back in, right? That's that's what's going to happen to a lot of people who sell here and then say it jumps to 120, 140, they're going to be like, "Oh my gosh, I'm missing it." And they pile back in and then they're the ones buying at the high and then the correction. So if people are happy scaling out, letting it run without them, you have to have that mindset. Um, what was your other question there? It was

>> where are we rotating to, >> right? So that is the difficult one. There really isn't anything I think to rotate to. Sometimes cash, the most boring position, some people don't even see it as a position, is the place to be. And I think holding US dollar at this point is still a very strong play for especially for Canadians. I think we're going to see the dollar, if the stock market rolls over, the economy weakens, the US dollar tends to rally. The chart's showing about a 15 to 17%

move in the dollar index. That is a pretty good return when say the stock market falls potentially 30 to 50%, precious metals fall potentially 30 to 50%. There could be a very big reset. So the play will be sitting in cash in a currency that you like. That at this point is the only other play. The flip side is Bitcoin actually looks like it's about to break down. So you could short Bitcoin or buy an inverse ETF and it looks like Bitcoin's about to fall 30%. So there's a few few plays. The cash one

is obviously the safest, the most boring. I believe is one of the best plays once you're out of gold and you're out of everything else. Um, sometimes waiting for things to fall apart and reset is one of the best things you can do and then you can take all that money and invest it when there is a prime a perfect setup. >> Yeah. Yeah. That is I think people often don't even think about cash as something that they can do. >> Yeah. A lot of people think casual. I'm going to fall behind. Inflation's going

to get me. Blah blah blah. All that stuff. I'm like, well, it's either you hold stuff and lose a ton more or you preserve your wealth and maybe underperform inflation for a year or six months or whatever, but who cares? You still have your wealth and then you can reinvest it when there is something screaming your name and that uh isn't frothy and overbought and all of that stuff. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I'll also take a look at the the dollar with you as well because here, especially at an event like this,

there's a lot of talk about devaluation of the dollar and a lot of concern around that. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, it's kind of like the ying and yang. You have gold at all-time highs, everybody loves it, and you have the dollar at like lows and everybody hates it. They usually kind of go in opposite directions. Not always, but um if something's hated, something's also loved. And I think we're going to see a reversion to the mean. We'll see, you know, the dollar start to rally

during weakness and eventually there'll be enough fear in global selling and margin calls and things like that that it will naturally just pull metals down temporarily and they kind of will come together. Uh there will be a time definitely to get back into metals because I think metals will go dramatically higher from where they are right now. But I do think that's like a year or two out. I think it's a process. I think there's a cleansing event that needs to happen and we just have to wait

for the cleanse to come and ride the trends until they they've ended. >> Yeah. Well, and I think that's an important point to remind everyone about as well. So, you do see the metals going higher, but it's it's in the longer term and for you, your approach is to go in and out more frequently than I think some people might do. >> Yeah. I mean for all for all we know and nobody wants to hear this but gold and silver could put in a massive peak and it could go dormant for another 10 or 15

years like who knows so why gamble on that's a possibility it's happened many many times in the past right and we are in a huge transition there's I mean there's so much stuff going on with war and countries and tariffs and you know people aren't trusting governments and systems that's why precious metals are going through the roof it's telling us something is about to break exactly what it is debt, but it's warning us just like in 2007 and other times when there's a huge change evolving in the uh

not in just in North America, but around the world. So, um protecting your capital is number one and um don't hold something if it's not moving up like put it somewhere else. There's always somewhere better to put it if it's not going anywhere. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think that helps to understand your approach there. And I do want to ask, so I was talking about rotation. Where do we go after precious metals? And so for you, something like cash makes sense. A lot of people are talking about oil. Oil and gas is one

that I'm getting a lot. The energy sector. How how do you see that that industry right now? >> It's beat up. Oil's been going down for years. >> I think oil is pricing in something like an economy weakening. Oil keeps bouncing on that $55$56 per barrel level over the past year. I think it's going to break through that. We'll probably see $45 oil. So oil's not pointing to the most rosy picture, a slow economy, um things like that. You know, all my cycles and analysis are pointing to this year the

market's topping. And then there's this other, you know, Samuel Benner, he's come out with this cycle back, and this is in the 1800s, and he's nailed a lot of the recent tops, the tech bubble peak, um the 2007 peak, the pandemic peak. The next one is 2026, this year. And it just coincides with everything else that's unfolding between sentiment and money flows, between various assets. All of these things are pointing to a major market correction of some sort. And his system is also screaming like

sell things with value, sell assets because we're going to see weakness till 2032. That's, you know, that's six years of slow downturn weakness. If you're retired, that's the last thing you want to do. And then on top of that, you have got to claw your way out of that, right? So there could be a loss five or 10 years in here and you could give back 20 30 50% of your portfolio depending on your waiting of various assets. So we're coming into a life-changing opportunity. It's an opportunity if you understand

it. Um if you don't understand it, you're coming into a lifechanging event that's out of your control. And uh that's kind of what I'm here at VRC and trying to talk to and sharing in a presentation is to just like get people prepared and warned to have a strategy because things aren't always going to be rosy when everything is good. The only way from the like good is down, right? So it usually doesn't just keep getting better and better. Um so there's going to be some type of correction,

>> right? And anything further you would say about the the length and depth? you mentioned some of the models that you're looking at, but I think it does help to illustrate people if they can picture how long it could last. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, in the I think the best case scenario would be we see gold probably pull back 30 to 40%. Silver potentially 40 50 60% potentially. I think that could happen over a six-month window. I think it'd be fairly quick. I think the stock market will continue to

sell off past that. precious metals will eventually find a bottom and become the next shining star again, hit all-time highs. I think the stock market could pull back 30 to 50% fairly easily. Um, and the bond market is it's a crapshoot. I mean, there's a lot going on there. People aren't Europe's pretty angry with the United States wanting to dump bonds and the interest rate chart, the 10-year yield is pointing to 8%. Which if those charts play out, I mean, it's going to wreak havoc on on the debt issue and all

of that stuff. So there's a lot of problems unfolding and um we just have to identify it, protect our capital, and just have a game plan, right? Most people don't have a game plan. The problem with most investors is they're reactionary. They take the hit, they're down a whole bunch, like, oh no, they're in denial like, I can't believe I'm down this much. I'm just going to have to ride it out. And the problem is the market gets there very quickly. And then people have that mindset. And I'm like,

actually, you can still get out. you can take the loss and save yourself going down another 20 or 30% and then waiting six or seven years to come out of it. You can just take the loss and then when you make future gains, you actually can write those losses off if they are losses against your gains. So, it's you just it's actually there's a you can navigate this without having to ride through all of that. So, if you can exit the stock market and move into something going up, um it's a game changer. I

mean, it'll save you decades of your life. We go through these bull and bare market phases. Most buy and hold investors will have 20 30 years sometimes in there of no returns because they're riding a bull markets or bare markets that are recovering and um that's a lot of time to invest it somewhere else that's going up. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think there is a danger in that all or nothing type of approach. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, this has been really informative and I think definitely this is a

contrarian view at least at this conference. So I I hope that people will pay attention and draw their own conclusions. Any final thoughts you would leave investors with. >> I think this is it. I think the key is just to protect your capital and understand that these quick easy gains in precious metals when it comes this easy, you got to be aware. Easy come, easy go. Look at the monthly silver chart. Zoom back to the 70s. What goes straight up can come straight back down fairly quickly. So um locking in gains

won't kill you. So >> Okay. Okay, well that is a great place to wrap it up. Thank you so much for coming to do this in person. We'll check back with you later and see how these themes are playing out for sure. >> Thanks for having me, Charlotte. >> Of course. And once again, I'm Charlotte Mloud with investingnews.com and this is Christopher Muan with the technicalraders.com.