later. I'm Charlotte Mloud with investingnews.com and here today with me is Adrien Day, president of Adrien Day Asset Management. Thank you so much for being here. >> Good to see you again, Charlotte. >> Yes, good to catch up with you. It hasn't been very long, but so much has happened. And today we're here at PDAC. We've made it to the afternoon of the second day. So, I think I can ask you how it's been feeling on the show floor. What is sentiment like? What have you


been seeing and hearing? >> Yeah. Well, of course, when I as with a lot of people when you come to PDAC, you're full of meetings and so I hadn't really been walking the floor too much. I mean, it the audience is good. I mean, yesterday it wasn't jammed, you know, as it has been sometimes in the past, which is an to me an interesting tell. uh you know sometimes you have to really push your way through to get anywhere. Um but it's certainly it's certainly full and certainly more upbeat. I think the


companies are the juniors are particularly upbeat. [laughter] You know, they've been able to raise money. Uh people are well cashed up and they're having conversations with seniors which may or may not lead anywhere. Of course, you and I know that. It always makes me amused when a company says, "Oh, we signed three confidential agreements." Well, yeah. Doesn't mean anyone's going to buy you. Just means they want to look. But um but the mood is definitely upbeat. >> Well, thank you for that context. I also


I've been stuck here, so I really don't know. So, I'm going to have to make my way down to the show floor tomorrow, I think. Let's talk about what the companies are doing right now. You're mentioning before we turn the camera on, it could be interesting to talk about the M&A in the sector and what the big companies are doing. So, tell me your thoughts. Yeah. So, until recently, I think it's and and even now, I think it's I think it's true to say that for most large companies, and I'm talking


about, you know, the large 10 or 15 companies, if when they look at M&A, they are not looking to buy something at the cheapest price they can get it. They are wanting to let the junior advance it, get the permits, get the social license, get all of that stuff done, and then they'll take it over when it's right for them, when they have the cash, when it fits into their pipeline, right? And they didn't mind overpaying a bit um in order to do that. But I sense a shift in the last few months that things


prices have moved so dramatically that that companies are saying, you know, if we're going to buy that, you know, if we're going to buy that, then the sooner we buy it, the better before the price moves up too much and before someone else comes in to take it over. I mean, fan is a good example where everybody assumed Agnigo would buy it, but then El Dorado came in and you know, now for Agnigo, I'm just speculating now. But now for Agnigo to to pay a premium over El Dorado arguably would just be too expensive. It


wouldn't be, you know, it wouldn't be a good acquisition at that point. So I think companies again when you say yeah this is definitely going to be ours one day I think they're going to move quicker. Now of course there's other projects where they're early stage and the company and again I just mentioned Agnigos I mentioned them again where Agnigo may take a 9% position they've got a seat at the table but it's still so early that they're just looking to see how it


advances. So that's a different thing I'm talking about where a company says that's going to be ours one day. >> So there's there's a sense of some urgency that's developing. >> I think definitely I would say more urgency. >> Is is there a danger that these miners repeat the mistakes of the last bull market when they overpaid etc? >> That's an excellent question. What a segue. Um we're not there yet by any means. In my view we're not there yet. I


mean, even if you look if you look at all of the acquisitions that have been done, I can't think of a single one where I scratched my head and said, "What on earth are they thinking?" You know, maybe they paid a little more than I thought they would. Maybe it's in a jurisdiction, huh? They're in Chile now. They're in Kazakhstan. Okay. But the acquisitions for the most part have been have been valid in my view. Now, will there come a day? human nature is human nature and there will come a point and I


don't think this time around it'll come from the companies. I think this time around it will come from big shareholders saying why have you got $2 billion cash on your balance sheet? Do something with it. You know, buy something. Here's something you can buy. Here's something you can buy. And I think I think there'll be pressure from large institutional shareholders for companies to do something. So, but we're not there yet. >> Okay. Okay. That is reassuring to hear


that we're not there yet. And while we're on the topic of M&A, so we've been seeing I think a lot of deals at the large end of the spectrum in the mining sector and one of the questions I think people have is is it going to move further down the food chain and and when? Any thoughts on that? >> Yeah, I mean we've seen a few in the mid tiers like or whatever you want to call them. Um things like Equinox Bank, Calibbre um and of before that B2 Bank um I've forgotten the name now. Now the


company doesn't exist. I've forgotten the name. But you know, Goosebay, buy Goosebay. >> Um but but but we've seen I mean Equinox Calibri would be a good example of of that. I think we're going to see more of that. Um but you know, with the early stage with the exploration companies, this gets back to what we were talking about at the beginning with the exploration companies, sometimes they haven't actually developed a project yet. And a senior company, even a intermediate company, is not


really going to want to spend a billion, two billion to buy something in that hasn't been defined yet. So that will come, no question. Um, but but you know, I think companies have to have to have a a defined resource before someone else wants to buy him. Typically, Great Bear was an exception, of course. >> Always an exception. to the rule. >> I think that gives us a nice idea of what's going on uh in terms of M&A activity in the mining sector. Maybe we take a look at what's going on with the


gold price right now. We are catching up on our last conversation which was at the end of January in Vancouver and that was a very exciting time for gold as well as silver prices. We had the big runup and very very soon after we spoke we had a big correction. So what's your take on that? Was that something that was just necessary given how quickly the price moved? >> Yeah, I think the correction in end of January, beginning of February was simply a reaction to how how fast the gold price, gold, silver price had


moved. I mean, as you say, if you look if you look at the chart, I mean, they moved almost exponential in January and then just gave back some of that. To me, what the most interesting thing particularly about the gold price, I would distinguish a little bit between gold and silver at this point, but particularly the gold price was frankly how quickly it started to come back. Um, and that to me points to the fact that there's just an awful lot of an increased I would say increasing uh people who want to buy gold and are


just waiting for a correction. Um and and yeah, I mean it's interesting to me people who didn't buy at 2,000 and didn't buy at 24 and didn't buy at three waiting for the pullback but happy to buy at 4,400 cuz it's pulled back but they could have bought a year ago. Um, so yeah, I mean I I think that that just points to the fact that there's a lot of people on the sidelines, you know, ready to buy. And of course, we had, you know, a few geopolitical events, you know, since then.


>> Yeah. Yeah. Which we will cover. I have one follow-up question before we go there. If we look back historically, when we get to this stage in a gold bull market, is this the type of price activity that we tend to see where the price moves higher and it pulls back, but the pullback doesn't last as long? Is that typical? >> Well, no, that's interesting. That's a really good question cuz you see that I would say you see that in bull markets, you know, reasonably frequently.


But what we haven't seen in this bull market yet is what we saw in the 2001201 bull market or 2001208 if you want to you know put it there or the 1970s bull bull market which is a a a significant genuine real correction you know in 1974 as you won't remember but I remember um you know we had a 50% correction in gold I mean from almost virtually $200 to $100 virtually 100% correction. 2006 we had I'm going for memory now but I would think that was about 30% correction uh in in the gold price which means the


stocks fell a lot more. We haven't seen anything you know like that yet. And I think the reason we haven't seen that is because you've got significant buyers, major buyers, um, primarily the central banks for since 2020 2022 of course and then more recently Tether. You've got two big buyers who are largely price agnostic or price incentive. So, if Tether sells, you know, 10 million gold stable coins, they need I don't know how many I don't know how much gold is each stable coin is


backed by. I I I just don't know. So, excuse my ignorance on this. I'm not a crypto sort of person. Um, but if they sell 10 million gold back stable coins, they need to buy 10 million ounces of gold and they need to buy it right away. They don't need to say, "Well, let's wait for a pullback. Let's see if we can buy cheaper in a few months time. and and so they're price agnostic and the central banks are largely price agnostic because they're not looking at putting


reserves on their balance sheet uh to make a profit and so I think I think that's what is meaningfully different significantly different between this bull market and and the previous two that I mentioned um you know the buyers are price agnostic largely the major buyers Um, so I've forgotten what the question was, but that was the answer. >> Yeah. Yeah. We were talking about pullbacks and how this >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I mean, will we see a significant pullback at some point?


Maybe. I don't know. The thing with the central banks, you know, obviously the central bank buying has slowed from the peak two years ago. um central bank the central bank um allocation to the dollar central bank uh the dollar as a percent of central bank uh foreign reserves global central bank foreign reserves in aggregate was we talked about this before but in in two in the year 2000 it was 78%. And it's been declining ever since then 5 years ago it was 65%. So this predated the current US administration and it


will post-date the current US administration. It's a long-term trend where they want to diversify away from the dollar, diversify away from a single asset, an asset of a profleate government, a government which wants to weaponize its dominance. So they have reasons to diminish shareholdings and most when they sell dollars, most of the proceeds then go into gold. You know, some goes into silver. what Russia and Saudi Arabia I think are the two central banks with silver some goes into the Japanese yen


even the euro is not getting big pickups from the sale of the dollar it's primarily going into gold so so you know when people say gold in central bank reserves I always answer with the dollar but I want to make it clear we're talk you know when you sell the dollar you're buying gold so the question is they're now at about 48% um that's my calculation based on various numbers So is 48% still too much? Well, I would say if you're genuinely worried about the profleacy of the US government and you're genu


genuinely worried about the weaponization of the dollar, I would say 48% is too much. Now if you're Germany or France, you know, maybe or Sweden, maybe you say, okay, you know, we're comfortable, you know, the US isn't going to come after us. But so at what point? So, it's natural that it slows as the percentage goes down. It's natural that it slows, but I don't think I don't I don't think we've seen the end of that by any means. >> So, I I know nobody likes to say this


time is different, but really it does sound like this bull market in gold has different attributes and it could play out differently. >> There are different attributes. Not this time is different, but there are different attributes. Well said. >> Yes. Yes. A sneaky way of of saying it. I think that sets the stage for us to talk about what's going on with gold in terms of current events. During our last conversation, we talked about two two new additional gold price drivers. You brought up chaos and uncertainty related


to the Trump administration. You brought up tether, which we were just talking about right now. And certainly, I think we've seen the uncertainty angle intensify this past weekend with conflict breaking out in the Middle East. So, this is developing. We're talking on Monday, March 2nd. For everybody's context, probably too early to say much, but how do you see that impacting goals? >> Yeah. Well, I think last time, if I remember, last time I said it was general general chaos and uncertainty


rather than specifically, I don't know if Venezuela had happened, but specifically, you know, Ukraine or or Gaza or one thing or another. Um, geopolitical events. I don't know if we talked about it last time, but geopolitical events generally, if you look back over 50 years, yeah, 50 years since the Iran hostage Iran again, right, since the Iran hostage situation in 1979, you know, when when they took over the US embassy. Again, you don't remember, but I actually remember. Um, and then of


course Jimmy Carter, poor Jimmy Carter sent the Marines into to rescue them, and the mission failed. Uh [sighs] but since then geopolitical events typically have a very short-lived spike very shortlived spike and the classic case would be the Russian invasion of of Ukraine where the gold price moved up meaningfully in like the two three four weeks ahead as Russia was massing troops on the border and all the speculation was about a war. But the day those tanks crossed the border, gold peaked and


within 3 months, it was 3 weeks, it was back to where it was before it started. And just look at the current situation. This is uh now again as you said, we're talking on early Monday afternoon. I've had lunch in a meeting. So when I left my room, right? So we're talking Monday morning. The interesting thing is that over the last seven days, as we've had all the saber rattling, gold moved up $300. Today, which is the first day after the um it's not an invasion, after the bombing,


um gold is up 15. And I think that just goes to illustrate, now I may be proven wrong tomorrow, but I think that goes to illustrate what I've been saying that geopolitical events tend to have a spike, but they tend to move up ahead of the event and the event is often the peak. So I don't think that that that I don't think that that's going to be the big driver of gold. And frankly, I'm happy about that because I don't think any of us really want to be profiting over, you know, bloodshed and


human human misery. Um, it's monetary factors that are driving gold. That's that's what's fundamentally driving gold. Monetary factors, lack of trust in governments, and particularly lack of trust in fiat currencies. And that trust has been completely broken with so many so many currencies. uh people just don't trust currencies anymore. >> I think that is becoming more and more clear. And another question that unites the chaos with Tether. I was seeing I don't know if you saw this over week


over the weekend. I was seeing online people looking at the price of the Tether gold stable coin because it trades 24/7 trying to use it as a way to project what happens to gold on Monday. So, I was curious, does that I know you said you don't really follow crypto or know too much about it, but does that make sense to you? >> Well, I think that makes sense. I I must admit I wasn't doing that because, you know, I was at the show. >> Um, but yeah. No, that absolutely makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And of course,


gold gold opened in Asia last night. So, I was looking at it last night obviously and preparing my trades um you know for this morning based on what was happening overseas. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's quite interesting. I'll I'll have to also keep an eye and see how they track in the future. As we can see, there's so many drivers behind gold right now. I think we talked a lot about what was going on at the Fed last time. I'm sure that continues to to develop. One thing I'm not sure if we


spoke about, I think we talked about the new Fed chair nomination, but there's increasing division within the Fed and I wonder if you have any comments on that. >> Yeah. I know that's really interesting to me because the Fed traditionally has been very collegiate body right so they have their discussions some disagree you know there's a debate they have their discussions but normally most of the time when the chairman says okay we'll raise rates by a quarter we'll drop rates by quarter


we'll keep them stable everybody goes you know we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll will there won't be dissents. Descents are relatively unusual. Now, we've seen more dissents in the last 6 months than we typically do and that's because of the Trump appointees or the people wanting to be the next Fed chairman [laughter] who uh you know wanting to disscent and say we want lower rates lower rates hoping to impress President Trump and get appointed. Um I'm being cynical but


I really think that's that's the fact. So the Fed is a very collegial body. Now in my view, I'm thinking of the Fed members as human beings, right? So one guy here will say, I really think we ought to be careful cutting rates because look at the inflation numbers. We haven't conquered inflation yet. I think we should hold rates steady. But okay, Powell, you want to cut them? I'll go along with you. Now, when Trump parachutes in his own person, um, and already has one person on the


board, I'm going to be much more willing to dissent, I think. So, so it's very clear from looking at the minutes of the Fed over the last um, 6 n months, but the Fed is fairly divided. There are those who really are most concerned about inflation and and want to resist cutting and even raise rates, but again they haven't descented. But when you've got a Trump appointee parachuted in, I don't know. I think that gives people sort of license to descent. >> Well, I think that human angle is pretty


important and I don't think a lot of people talk about it. I think people tend to think of them as, you know, just different inputs. But yeah, the the human angle. Yeah. It gives us an idea of how it could play out. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I know it's true in things. I I I won't talk about it, but you know, you're on an investment committee and you have a debate about should you buy Nvidia or should you sell it? And you know, in the end, it's three against four, but the


chairman says, "We'll hold." Okay, everybody says hold. But if some guy outside comes and parachutes someone in, I'm going to be much more vocal about what I think. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think that is human nature. The other thing I wanted to bring up, I don't think that we covered this last time, but there's in the stock market, there's this growing AI concerns that have been developing this past week and even back beyond that. People are getting more worried about the sector. I


wonder if you could talk about your thoughts on that. How do you see it playing out and the impact again on hard assets gold? >> Yeah. Well, I'm not a I'm not a technology um expert, but but I do know I think I know a little bit about human nature and you know when you look at technology generally one thing to understand from technology is that it becomes typically it becomes more efficient and smaller. So you can do more and with a smaller size. is you only have to think of the iPhone and the


computing power we have on the iPhone, but think of other things as well, you know, o over the past. And so when we have all these projections from companies for 4 million square mile square acre uh data farms. Um I think these I think I think the projections are just driving us towards massive massive overbuilding and within 5 years that is by the time some of these are actually built and ready to go within 5 years we'll be able to do a lot more with a lot less and we we won't we simply won't be needing all


of the data farms that are being projected. The other thing I find really interesting about this is you've got companies like, well, sorry, let me back off. A a really successful company, tech company like Amazon, you know, they lose money for years and years and years as they're building up their infrastructure, but then they reach a certain point where they don't need a lot more in terms of assets. Meta might be an even better one where it's really very very um acid light right it's an acetike business and


that's been the sort of drive if you like of a lot of the new technology is to have an assetike business maybe you need to have maybe you need to have an infrastructure to begin with but you don't continue to expand your infrastructure you try to run a business acid light the interesting thing about this is that companies companies are now that our asset light like Meta are now completely reversing and putting 3/4 or even 80% of their cash flow into infrastructure. Um, and I I think I think it's going to


end in in pain for a lot of these companies, frankly, for that reason, but also for the reason I mentioned. I just don't think we're going to need all this stuff. >> That is that is awesome. >> And we don't I'm sorry to interrupt. And we don't have the power or the copper to build these things and to run these things. >> Right. Right. So, we're not even prepared to have them anyway. >> Exactly. Sorry to interrupt, but yes. >> Yeah. No, of course. So, yeah, this is


all really interesting. And so there's this idea that maybe people will rotate away from tech toward commodities, but also when we were in Vancouver for VR, I heard a lot of people talking about rotating out of precious metals where maybe they've made some profits into other areas of the resource sector. And I wanted to get your thoughts on that as well because you've been very adamant in telling us that this run in gold is not over. >> Yeah. Now I I absolutely very firmly believe that the running gold is not


over and that if it's not over the gold stocks generally remain very very inexpensive. So you look at a company like Aigo which I probably mentioned last time but you look at Aigo um you know price to cash flow price to free cash flow which is my favorite metric for a gold miner price to free cash flow today is higher than it was at the end a year ago at the end of 2024 but it's lower today than it was in 23 22 21 198. In other words for the 5 years previous it was trading at a higher multiple than it is today. That just


doesn't make sense. If you think the gold price is going up and you think the mar look at the margins I mean the margins are astonishing. Ago's uh all in sustaining costs are under 2,000. They're what 1850 or something. I mean just think of the margins that these companies have. So if you unless you think gold is going to collapse I think which I don't. I think the gold stocks are inexpensive as well. But having said that, if you look at and this actually is what I talked about of V-Rick, so


it's interesting you're asking me now. >> I I didn't see your presentation there. So that's my fault. >> But if you look at I mean gold obviously has well outperformed copper even though copper is at an all-time high. But then when you come to things like oil, uranium, agriculture, I mean gold has just left those in the dust. Gold and silver have left those in the dust. You look at the commodity complex generally like the Bloomberg commodity index for example and all of


these commodity indexes they rebalance at the end of a year or at the end of a quarter but Bloomberg at the end of the year so that gold and silver's big runup gets you know the percentage in the in the index gets reallocated. Uh all all of these commodity index indices are basically at 100year lows relative to the stock market. 100year lows. Gold and silver are small potatoes. Copper is not, but gold and silver are pretty small in the whole commodity complex. So no, the commodities remain incredibly um


undervalued relative to financial assets. The commodity stocks, the same thing. Commodity equities um 100red-year lows um relative to to the rest of relative to the broad stock market. and and obviously gold has done much better than the other commodities over the last year, two and three. So the question is does it make sense to trim some of your gold holdings if you've been in the market a while to buy other things? I think it does. But I would say that for me gold remains very undervalued. But


not only that, it remains on a riskreward basis. On a riskreward basis, it still remains the best asset because if you look at whether it's copper or zinc or anything else, there are risks in those commodities that we don't have in in in gold. If the global economy slows dramatically and moves into a recession, you know, doesn't matter what's happening with AI farms because, you know, they're going to be cut back in a recession. Um, you know, the commod the the resources will be hurt. So, gold has


a better riskreward profile. And if I may, is it's so so yes, we're buying. So, a lot for us depends on the client. If we get a new client, you know, here's X amount of money for a resource account. We are still overwhelmingly emphasizing gold. Now, of course, if you buy Franco Nevada, you're buying 20% oil and gas. If you buy Barrack, you're buying 25% copper, etc. But we're overwhelmingly emphasizing gold because it's a better riskreward. But if we've got a I nearly said a guy. If we've got


a esteemed client that we've had for 20 years and you know the gold has moved up to maybe 40% of their portfolio even though I've been trimming it along the way. Well, I'm not going to add to that. I'm going to be buying you know other things instead. The other thing, if I may, it's not just commodities. I mean, you know, it's if you look at the broad market, we're seeing a rotation. You mentioned rotation. And we're seeing rotation out of the tech big tech big tech which has driven the US stock


market for the last five or seven years and AI for the last four or five years but big tech has really driven the US market and it's beginning to roll over. Um and last year the global markets that is the foreign markets the world xus outperformed the S&P by almost 2 to1. So the world xUS was up like 32%, the S&P was up like 17%. It's almost 2 to1. This year if you look, same thing's happening. All of the global global mark all of the major global markets I should say. All of the global markets are


outperforming the US by a meaningful amount this year. So I think we're already seeing that rotation out of the US into foreign markets. We're seeing that. We're also beginning to see to a lesser degree uh a move out of big tech towards things like out of growth towards value, out of big cap towards small cap and out of you know big uh growth companies, speculative growth companies to more defensive companies. So we're already seeing these shifts. >> It's a lot of rotations going on right


now. >> Absolutely. One follow-up question. For that larger client who has a lot of gold exposure, they need to trim it back and put that money somewhere else. Where in their resource sector would you look? Would it be toward copper or >> Well, I'm exceptionally bullish on copper. So, even though copper is at all-time highs and the copper stocks have generally done well, um I'm I remain very very bullish on copper on a 5-year basis. And I I know we've talked about this before, but the the beautiful


thing from an analyst point of view about copper is it takes so long to get a project not just from exploration to a to a resource. Forget about that, you know, that can be 80 years, but from from the time you have a resource to the time of production, we might be talking 15 years or more. And even if you have you know a fully developed project I think I may have mentioned this Stuart not before but I was talking with Richard Atkinson once the he's the chairman emeritus I think but he was the


CEO of Freeport and I was asking him why they weren't with with everything bullish he was saying about copper this was 5 years ago with everything bullish you're saying about copper why aren't you developing more mines um anyway but in the context of that answer he said we've got projects that are shoveled ready. Shovel ready. We've got permits. They're shovel ready. He said if the board of directors gave approval tomorrow morning, it would be 5 years minimum before they started to


produce. And so when you think about that long time frame, we have very very good exposure to what copper production in 5 years is going to be. There's going to be, it's highly, highly unlikely that there will be a major source of copper production in 5 years time that we don't already know about and haven't accounted for in our models. Some mines might do better than we expected. Most will do worse than we expected, but there's not going to be a big source we don't know about.


And so the the concl the the um conclusion from that is that if you look at optimistic estimates for production in 5 years time and you look at conservative estimates for demand in 5 years time there remains a mismatch [snorts] and that mismatch a deficit there's no such thing as a deficit in metals because the deficit is is resolved by higher prices. So we're going to have higher prices. So copper I'm very bullish on. Oil and gas is a tricky one because the oil stocks, forget about today, but the oil


stocks have actually moved up over the last 3 4 months. Maybe a lot of people have been listening to Rick Rule, but the oil stocks have moved up fairly significantly and way ahead of any increase in the oil price. Nothing to do with Iran, nothing to do with this weekend. So when I look at the oil stocks, I'm finding it frankly, you know, in the last month or two, I've been finding it difficult to actually find companies I want to buy at the prices that they're on offer. So uh at this point, I would


look for a pullback before before jumping in. Um you know, and the big global integrators like um Exxon and Chevron, I think they're pretty fully priced. I really do. But we're looking at some of the big um independent um EMP companies like EOG for example, the former Enron oil and gas, the only part of Enron, which actually was a big success. Um but EOG is a great company and and there's others like that. Some Canadian companies, Canadian natural resource we're buying or have been


buying. Sorry, we're not buying now. And then um you know agriculture generally I think is very inexpensive now um it's a little more difficult to know how to buy agriculture um but some of the potach companies are good um for phosphate um yeah so but we I tend to get agriculture through well a company like Altius for example again I'm not buying it now sorry but it's one of their largest positions. Altis is a great company and you know and that's a royalty company so bit lower risk than the actual producers but


they have not it's not an agricultural company but they have high exposure to agricultural commodities so it's a good way of getting that exposure. >> Well I'm I'm glad you mentioned agriculture. We always ask people before these events if they have questions and one person told me talk stop talking so much about gold and silver talk about agriculture. >> Really? >> Yes. So there you go. We did that. Agriculture is very difficult for a lot of reasons and again I don't pretend to


be an absolute expert on that but I mean obviously if you're looking at the crops then the weather is a huge factor particularly for things like wheat and and soybeans and so on less so for some things like um you know pistachios and and and and almonds and so on but they still need water so water becomes a big issue if you're in California with an almond farm well did you have a lot of snow and so will you be getting water. Are the reservoirs full? Will you be getting water for the planting season,


growing season? Um, so those are big factors and that can vary from obviously the weather and the the rainfall, the water availability varies from year to year and so it's difficult to say, oh yeah, I think you've got to buy pistachio farms and then in a year's time, you know, >> yeah, that gets very complicated very quickly. Uh there are companies there's a company we own quite a bit of again I'm really sorry we're not buying it now but it's called Glles & Land. So Glassen Land is


that's a company that um leases will buy farms sorry buy farms and lease them back to the farmers. So they don't do the actual farmer farming except on a couple of farms where the farmer retired. But basically their model is you lease it back to the farmer who's the expert but you know you own the farm and you get a percentage of of the crop and um you know so that's a and it's all in the US. So that's a good way to get exposure to agriculture. I think uh most of their most of their crops are


perennials. they don't do many of the annual crops. Um most of them are in the western United States. So water is a big issue although it's obviously something they're fully aware of and and and they have bought um water reservoirs and water pipelines. Um so you know that's a way of getting exposure to to agriculture. >> That's really those are ones that I didn't know about. So very helpful. >> I will I will let you go. I'll send you back out onto the show floor. I know


it's such a busy day. Unless you had any final final thoughts. >> Uh, you know, I think the final thought I would have is, you know, we talked about the client, the new client, and we talked about the longestablished esteemed client and so on. I I think the final thought would be, you know, you have to whatever you hear about, whether it's me talking or it's on your show, whatever, whatever you hear about that sounds interesting, you've still got to tailor that to your own portfolio


and um you know, you don't want to go overboard on any particular thing. Um you've got to rightize, but you've got to do it according to your circumstances, your risk preference, you know, etc., etc., etc. >> I think that's a good note to end on, important for everyone to remember. So, thank you so much for spending the time today. This was really helpful. >> Well, thank you so much. Appreciate it as always. And once again, I'm Charlotte Mloud with investingnews.com and this is


Adrien Day of Adrien Day Asset Management.