[music] I'm Charlotte Mloud with investingnews.com and here today with me is Garrett Goen, founder of Golden Portfolio. Thank you so much for being here. Great to have you. >> Charlotte, nice to see you. >> Yeah, so good to be catching up with you. This is our first interview since we spoke here at PDAC last year. So, so much has changed in the gold and silver markets and I thought we could start just with a question to set the stage. Where do you see us in the cycle right now for gold?
>> Yeah, you know, as we were talking before, um it really seems like it's the moment in time that for gold bugs have been waiting for for 50 years like we're there and you know gold keeps going higher and it's driven by you know the fundamental supply and demand economics. We have, you know, China not buying treasures anymore. We have the bricks not buying treasures anymore. We have the implementation of um, you know, digital currencies, you know, that are taking down gold. Um, and then, you
know, we've got Trump and Scott Basset and, uh, Paulo's going to be, you know, leaving the Fed in May. Trump's going to bring rates down to 1%. Steve Moran is on the Fed and Steve Moran wrote wrote the Mara Lago accord that proposes devaluing the dollar to make US goods more competitive and they're going to cut rates to 1%. They're going to devalue the dollar like you can't own long bonds like it's nirvana for gold and it's not changing anytime soon. >> Yeah, it's really clear that there are
so many drivers in [snorts] gold >> right now. And one that I did want to bring up, we've got all these tensions in the Middle East erupting over the weekend. I think important for everybody to know. We're talking on Sunday, so we don't know necessarily what's going to happen when it becomes Monday, but any any thoughts on what we see there? >> Yeah. Well, you know, it's been wild over the past uh, you know, decade or so. Whenever there's major global uh tension, you would see the the dollar
spike up, people would run to the dollar for safety. You'd [snorts] see uh bond prices rise, yields decline. But over the past year or so, during major conflicts, we've seen the dollar sell off and we've seen bonds sell off. um like all this global tension um the US is kind of pushing its weight around the world and our the foreigners our trade partners are kind of tired of it and instead of rushing to the dollar they're you know moving away from the dollar but you know I was talking about that on
Sunday uh when the market opens on Sunday too but you know what like I'm watching you know tether gold trade right now you know tether spiked up 200 bucks from the close it trades 24/7 365 and it it you know you can see it it's up about 100 bucks from Friday's close right now. So, it's going to be very interesting to see what's going to happen on Sunday. But, yeah, we could see the dollar decline and gold go higher. Like, gold is a better store of value than the dollar, obviously, and
that's what people want. >> Yeah. And tell me a little bit more about Tether and what we're seeing right now. I know you've been writing a lot about what's going on. Tether has its gold stable coin. It's also become a major buyer of gold in its own right. How significant is this? >> Yeah, this is wild. Um, I call it my Beaver Creek Accord because we were out in Beaver Creek at the Big Gold Show and um, Fred Bell, the CEO of Elemental Royalties, came to me and he goes,
"Gary, you got to meet this guy." And it was Juan Story. And I [snorts] started talking to Juan, who is the head of business development at Tether. And Juan's like, "Listen, we're buying two tons of gold per week." I'm like, "What?" You know, that's whatever 50 tons per year. That puts him in one of the world's largest gold buyers. and he goes, "Listen, this Tether Gold token is going to be bigger than Tether dollar. Tether dollar has got like a 200, 300
billion in assets. Tether gold only is, you know, 200 mil, 300 mil. Uh because people don't the the Tether dollar, it provides exposure to the US dollar. Um and it doesn't pay interest, right? Um, so you know, people are going to start at Tether Dollar and then they're going to move right into Tether Gold because gold is a store of value. And the knock on gold, right, for a hundred years is, you know, you talk to people that aren't into gold, they're like, "Oh, what are
you going to do? Shave off some of your gold bar and pay for a coffee?" It's like, "No, dude. I have tether gold. I owe, you know, $3." It's like, "Here's 0.001 of, you know, to be tether gold, you know, tapping your cell phone." And then my line is the the combination of gold, the uh world's best store of value for a thousand years combined with um crypto's frictionless exchange um and uh yeah, and the ability to transfer instantaneously makes the world's
ultimate currency. Well, and we talked last year about the lack of interest in gold from generalists and it feels like this is starting to send us in the way of more attention from the mainstream. So, to what extent do you think gold has >> Yeah, we're not there yet. Um, you know, I track a lot of metrics. I track GLD shares outstanding. It's still below the 2011 high. SLV shares outstanding, still below. I track uh S&P market cap compared to like the GLD market cap and um it's you know at 0.003
at the last top it was like 0.00u 012 of a percent like 4x higher like the generalist is not in and one of the things like I'm a fun fundamental guy >> [snorts] >> um you know I try to buy a dollars worth of free cash you know for dimes and lending gold it's it's the best gold mine in the world norte they just [snorts] came out with earnings and the CEO said listen we're distributing all of our free cash to shareholders they bumped up the dividend to $1.15 per share that's $460 $460 per year that's
like a 7% % um dividend yield like on one of the best gold mines in the world and its fair value. The average gold miner trades for about a 1% dividend yield, you know, puts the fair value of Lindine Gold at $460 per share. Like this is a layup and if if the generalist and the investors were in the market, Lindine Gold would be priced a lot higher and it's not. There's still an opportunity. And then if you use the current price of gold over 5,000, the dividend jumps like $6.50. I think it's
it's amazing value found in the best gold miner in the world and at the top we're not going to find that value. >> So that's that's one area that you are looking in terms of opportunity in the gold stocks in general. How are you approaching the gold equities right now? >> Yeah. Um to be honest with you, it's been really hard uh getting my mind around. There's been so many changes over the past year uh like with Trump and the critical metal critical metals and silver and gold. We've had projects
that have been dead for 10 years, 20 years, and then I'm like, you know, that project's not going anywhere. I've known it for 20 years, and then all of a sudden it gets fasttracked like overnight, and it's a go, and now it's worth billions and billions of dollars. One of the royalties, it was a Spring Valley owned by um Spring Valley Sailfish has got a 3% NSR on it. And I'm like, we got to add this to the portfolio. And then uh they ended up selling they their their Spring
Valley royalty got acquired 2 weeks later. Like the pace that things are moving right now is absolutely staggering. [snorts] And then you know I've been covering a lot of the silver companies for you know say 20 25 years and it's never been a good investment. They'll bump like core and hecka they'll bump from 500 mil um profits in a quarter or gross profit back down to zero 250 500 zero. Well, now with the higher price of silver, they're making like three billion4 billion dollars.
Like the spike and the value creation is absolutely enormous and it's going to be really interesting to see what these miners are going to do with all their profits going forward. Like we're in a new era. >> Well, and you had written recently on X that Curr and Heck need to get that activist investor treatment. So I wonder can you explain what you mean by that? >> Well, um what's his name? John Paulson and Marcelo Kim. uh they came in to uh the Denver Gold Group I think in 20 I
don't know 2016 2017 they did an activist they're like you guys need to create value you guys need to do this but um you know it it wasn't they weren't holding the minor's feet to the fire they were calling them out for the lack of value creation but like an act activist investor what they the activist investor they see the company worth you know this much and then they see the company trading for only this much and they go listen if you sell off this and if you do this and you increase the
dividend and you um you know buy back shares, you will increase the value. So like some of the New York guys that are you know ruthless like Carl Icon and uh you know some of them they'll come in they see the value on the table they'll come in they'll shake up management they'll get them doing you know shareholder creative things and you know they'll push a share price higher so everyone will be will make money and I just see the uh the value on the table right now that is uh not being unlocked
because they're still running the companies the same way they were 20 years ago and we're in a new place right now. Well, are there any companies, silver or gold, that you think are adapting to the current environment and they're doing a really good job for their shareholders? >> Yeah. Um, you know, Linding Linding Group, um, NGX, you know, they spun off, uh, Joseé Maria, you know, and then they, uh, spun off a couple other projects and they they spin it out right to shareholders, you know. Um, Lendine
Gold just sold a silver stream to Lunar Royalties and it's 500,000 um, uh, silver ounces per year and they Luna royalties paid uh, 50 million shares for it and Lenin Gold is spinning that right out to shareholders. Um, and a lot of companies they won't do that. They'll hold it on their balance sheet. Um, you know, they'll manage the position, they'll choose to sell it and management end up making more money and the bankers get rich. uh but the you need to find the groups where uh the management is
focused on you know shareholders first and you know these free stock dividends are straight value right to shareholders so I stick with groups like that >> and I want to ask in terms of the stocks how you're approaching taking profits at the moment because at the end of January when we had gold and silver prices really running there was a lot of talk I was at VC in Vancouver a lot of talk about are people taking profits so what what have you been doing >> I was there I was there I I'm I'm like
mentally I was there because you know the silver price I do a regression daily regression versus gold. It's like a gold silver ratio but it's a regression back to 1970 and silver reached a level at when it was at $120 that it was like 70% overvalued versus predicted price versus gold. And the last times that happened were in 1980 and 2011. Both major blowoff tops for silver and silver was uninvestable for the next whatever 10 years, 20 years. and you know the top happened and the overval overvaluation
happened and then you know it's sold off here um but it's hanging in there and like the demand is there like fundamentally we're in a different place and silver's at $90 an ounce and it's hanging on there and it looks like it's going to stay there and just the the the the profits that are being generated at you know $90 an ounce silver you know staggering. Yeah. And you know, there's a lot of little silver companies that were, you know, um, not really profitable when silver was at 30 and 40
and, uh, you know, lower grade stuff, but now, you know, they're just gushing cash. Um, and, you know, there's some projects that have been around for a while like, uh, Cordderero by Leon Mine, and it's been around for 30 years. It's like really low grade, and it's never really worked. Um, and now, uh, Discovery, uh, silver owns it. And now I'm like, it looks like it's gonna work. You know what I mean? Because the economics are are pushed so much higher by the higher price of silver. And then,
um, Karani, uh, that's been around for 30 years, never really worked. It looks like it might work at these prices. So, it's a real, uh, mind shift that's it's a new era in mining right here. Well, and on the note of the silver stocks you're mentioning before we turn the camera on, we probably want to talk about what's going on in Mexico. There's a lot of turmoil there right now, and I think investors might not know. Should they be in Mexico right now? Any thoughts? >> Well, unfortunately, like if you like
silver, you have to have exposure to Mexico cuz Mexico has produced 90% of the world's silver over, you know, history. All the world silver, it's produced from Mexico. Mexico hasn't been, you know, the safest place to do uh business. You know, Vizla, Vizla's got the best uh panuko project like in the world. The grade is like 600 grams a ton. There's nothing like it. It reminds me of you know, Mag Silver's Wannipio. I mean, reminds me of Silver Crest uh Lispus. Um and [snorts] this is the best
project in the world. And um you know, 10 of their employees got kidnapped and they found him dead. Like it's awful. It's absolutely tragic. and then the Mexican government and with US forces went in and launched an allout attack on the cartel. Like you cannot let the cartel win. There's too much money on the table. Um, and I really think that, you know, you need to take advantage of the dip, um, in prices because, you know, uh, Haliscoco State, um, and the other the other, uh, states in Mexico in
the future, they could be one of the most safest places to mine due to this crackdown on cartel activity. Do you know what I mean? Like there's there's too much money there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like this is the time. Take advantage of it. >> Okay. Okay. I think that's that's a good attitude to have about the situation. And you started to talk about what is driving silver right now. You mentioned we're above $90 per ounce right now. So, let's talk a little bit more about that.
It feels like we're getting to a market where holding the actual physical metal is getting so [clears throat] much more important. >> Yeah. Yeah. No doubt. Um, you know, it's been the same story for 20 years. Like I I kind of been writing about it for 20 years. Uh, you know, solar demand, right? Like battery technology, electric cars. Uh silver's been in the supply supply demand deficit of 100 million ounces plus for six seven years. So it's just a matter of time before the silver
price caught up. But um you know for a long time the US has been running a strong dollar policy, right? Um so you know there it's conspiracy theory. You know it's like they've been managing the price of gold, they've been managing the price of silver and it's like [snorts] yeah you know you can sell as many futures as you want. like don't let gold get too high, don't let silver get too high because when gold gets too high, people are going to lose faith in the dollar and the dollar is going to lose
its worlds reserve status. But now [snorts] um our current administration is running a weak dollar policy and honestly like Trump and Bant, they're like who cares if gold goes to 10,000? Who cares if gold goes to 20? More people are going to make money. Like what's wrong with that? It's good. And I I just I think it's a shift in uh you know government policy that's helping you know silver and gold uh find their [snorts] you know fair value after 20 30 40 50 years of suppression.
>> Well and in addition to that silver now a critical mineral at least in the US. So that also seems like it adds to the story there. >> Yeah. Yep. Yeah. No doubt. Um you know the critical minerals interesting you know uh you know we need it. We've been relying on China for a lot of rare earths and a lot of critical minerals and you know, god forbid what if we went to war with China, we wouldn't be able to build anything ourselves. So now they're bringing it back on the table.
But one of the funny things is uh you know, Tomahawk missile. They're like, "Oh, there's 500 ounces of silver in each Tomahawk missile." And I I told Keith Newire, that CEO of First, he goes, "Well, we should go mine Iran or Iraq then, like with all the Tomahawk cruise missiles." But I don't think it's that much. Silver's used for uh in it's used for uh so solder like in a lot of the uh retail applications you know the connection points but in military
applications they do use silver wires right because they don't care how much it costs and you know they want to have it uh silver is the most conductive metal [snorts] uh so they do want it you know the best they possibly can. So you know there is a lot of silver in in military applications but I don't think it's I it's it's probably close to like maybe 5 ounces of silver in each Tomahawk missile. Yeah. Well, and let's go back to the silver manipulation idea that you were mentioning because I think
it's on a lot of people's minds right now, especially after last week with the whole CME Group thing once again. So, what's what's really going on? What are you seeing >> in between doing the fundamental analysis? You know, I build my spreadsheets and I do the research. you know, I I do I trade silver futures um you know, on the Comx and you know, it so far so good and it's done great, but like was it Thursday or Friday? Like Comx, they're like gold and silver halted for trading and all of a sudden
it I noticed it going tick tick tick it like it wasn't moving and it was flatline. I'm like what's going on? I had to look and com shut them down again. Um, and I don't I forget their reason what it was, but if you look into it, um, you know, the the March contract was rolling off were rolling into May and then what when that happens, you know, deliveries are, uh, announced and supposedly the ComX, they they spoke to the guys that wanted delivery and they're like, listen, just hang on for
another month. Don't take delivery here, you know, just roll it out another month and then you can take delivery there. But then that also happened in uh Thanksgiving like silver was bumping up. It was going like 78 79 80 and it looked like it was really going to raise a roof and then all of a sudden it was like COMX halted for trading due to the servers overheated. Like this is ridiculous stuff that you've never heard before and then it opened up uh whatever a day or two after that and then it
traded straight up to like 120. It just went right up. So there's definitely smoke there. It's hard to put your finger um you know upon what exactly it is, but there's a lot of demand for silver and there's not enough supply to go around. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's definitely things going on there. And do you subscribe there's there's people talking about is the comx going to default? Do you subscribe to that idea? >> Um yeah, I don't know.
I see the comx losing pricing power. Uh the east versus the west where you know the the the east China you know they're going to be driving the the the the price you know performance and uh you know the comx is going to lag behind um you know cuz the comx is losing relevance because the demand is so high in the east. So I see it as a gradual thing. I I don't think we're going to wake up one night and see, you know, but you know, it's interesting with uh London, you know, the London uh futures
exchange and the uh LBMA um and you know, the the gold fix that they do twice a day and there's no transparency on any of that. And now [snorts] with like digital gold and digital silver, like if you go to Tether's website, uh they don't trade silver, but they do they got the Tether gold. They're like, "Listen, we own this many gold bars and they're worth this much. The visibility is, you know, extremely transparent." And that that's the sort of thing that we're going to be
moving to. Just these old archaic institutions that provide no visibility, like no one's going to use them anymore. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Those are massive trends that definitely seem to be unfolding in the industry. Anything else really key in gold or silver that you think investors might be missing right now? >> Yeah. Um, I don't know. There's like a million things right now, you know. Uh but I I would just say, you know, be patient. Um you know, hang on for the longer term. Uh and you know, don't try
to trade it. Just, you know, go we're going higher. Like they in the Bitcoin bill by Cynthia Lumis, you know, there's a clause in there. It's like, listen, um, we we're going to revalue gold, you know, on the Fed's balance sheet to the current price of gold, and we're going to use it to establish the Bitcoin reserve through like accounting slight of hand, but gold is held on the Fed's balance sheet for at $40 an ounce. You start throw valuing it at $10,000, then that would be probably, I don't know,
like seven or eight trillion, which covers, you know, a portion of the US, $38 trillion of debt. you start throwing $20,000 an ounce and $25,000 an ounce that covers like 30 35% of the US debt like a revaluation like it's coming like the every day you wake up and there's always some news and some smoke and you know you just you know um you know follow the follow the message that's being delivered like gold uh US is going to revalue gold at some point I don't know when exactly but you know it's
going to happen and then the best way to manage your portfolio is you know sit down and you know your personal situation go listen I want 20% tech 10% healthcare 10% finance 20 10% 20% gold stock so stocks 25% and then what you do is when your allocation of gold socks gets up to 30% you know sell a little bit >> and take it back down to 25% and buy the stuff that hasn't done as well maybe technology or maybe this maybe that um that's the easiest way to do it therefore you're not like timing the
market saying oh it looks high I'm going to It looks low. I'm going to buy it. You're managing, you know, your own portfolio. Um, and yeah, it's with the higher price of gold. Yeah, there was one other thing, but I'll think about it in a second. >> Well, and I'll ask, so when you're trimming, one of the questions that people have had is, all right, if I'm taking profits in gold and silver, where might I want to deploy them next in the resource sector? So, any [clears throat]
thoughts on that? >> Oh, in the resource sector? I don't know. Or somewhere else. >> Yeah. Yeah. It it's just you want to buy the stuff that's low and, you know, try to, you know, take take profits in the stuff that's high. But, you know, a golden portfolio um in all portfolios actually, uh 5% or less of your positions make up 95% of your gains. So, you're going to have losers, losers, losers, but you're going to have big big big winners. Like, don't take all your
profits off the table on your, you know, big winners. um hang on to it because those big winners, they have intrinsic things that are going right there that they're probably going to be intrinsically right in a year or two or three and they're going to continue being, you know, leaders in the industry, you know, driving price performance. So, yeah, I tell people to stick with their winners. >> Well, that sounds like a good place to wrap up unless you remembered your your thought that you had.
>> No. Yeah. No. >> Okay. Okay. Well, we'll we'll finish there. Thank you so much for coming on to go over what's happening in Gold and Silver. This was great. Excellent. Thank you, Charlotte. >> Amazing. And once again, I'm Charlotte Mloud with investingnews.com and this is Garrett Goen with Golden Portfolio.
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