[music] I'm Charlotte Mloud with investingnews.com and here today with me is Brian Lenny, editor of Junior Stock Review. Thank you so much for being here. Great to have you. >> Oh, thank you for having me. >> Really good to be catching up with you. It's been a year since we last spoke, so we've got a lot to get into. And because we're on the first day of PDAC, I can ask you how how are we doing at the convention so far? But you did say you were at the Metals Investor Forum. So,


how is sentiment looking? What What are people saying? >> It's great. It's great to see and it sort of continues on from the the crowd that I saw in January where uh I think sentiment, expectation, uh profits are all there. And, you know, that's really indicative of where we are. We're definitely in a bull market and uh it feels good. Feels really good especially after prior years having been through multiple cycles. Uh it's fantastic to be in a bull market. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's nice to see people


feeling happy. And let's talk about how your portfolio is looking right now. How is it breaking down in terms of commodity and also maybe company size? >> Uh so I I'm agnostic to the metal, but I can't help but to stay where I think the money is kind of flowing um and where I see value. So, we were heavily invested in precious metals going into really 2024. And as we were talking last year, the portfolio performed exceptionally well in 2024, even the leadup to 2025. Um, and what I've been doing is I'm not


afraid to take profits along the way. And I've been rotating cash into copper. Last year, uh, I to me anyways, you know, we had a couple false starts over the last couple years in copper where we saw some spikes above $5, but it never seemed seemed to hold. And what happened in Grassburg, you know, as unfortunate as it is, what we've seen across the copper space, I thought, you know what, I think there's going to be a rotation into copper. And so early about midsummer, um I started rotating some of


those precious metals profits into copper companies. Um and it was the right move. Copper's now at $6. Um those those companies have moved up in price alongside with precious metals who've had a great Q1 uh to start the year. And so the portfolio looks really good. Precious metals and copper really focused. But I do have some other positions in nickel um in some other things that I think are gonna be up and coming. >> Cool. And let's talk a little bit more about that process of rotating capital.


So taking your gains from precious metals going over to copper. How how did you make that decision because it's it's tough to do that when the prices are still even now doing so well. >> It is. It is. And especially like early on in my career, that's how I made money. Um, I made money by investing in like a handful of what I thought were the best companies. I held those for multiple years and then I made a ton of money in 2016 and that's what allowed me to do this full-time. The thing was I


was forced to take money out of the market because of my lifestyle. I had left my 9-5. I was moving and so that forced me to take money out not because I had this decision in my head. And so over the course of 2016 to 2020 was a huge learning experience for me. Um, I I not only was engrossed in the sector, but I also had a couple people that I became really close with and were were mentoring me. And the biggest lesson that really closed the loop for me was the importance of selling. And one mentor in particular is like you have to


grasp this. You have to be able to look for what what's next, what is cheap, and and keep that rotation going because as good as markets look, we all think that everything's going to continue on. And unfortunately, it doesn't happen. And you know what? In 2020, it really helped. I had I had taken profits. I had a good chunk of cash and that gave me the courage to deploy into a market that was falling apart and that set me up for one of the best years of my financial years in 2020. So that was that that's


the importance of selling. And so I I've continued that and and that's how my process is now. I'm looking to take profits rotating to what's cheap or even just hold cash if I don't see something that is good value. >> Okay. Okay. And let's talk more about copper as well because I have heard other people say yes, it's time to start rotating away from gold and silver, but the common place I've been hearing people are starting to look at putting their money is oil and gas and and


copper as well, but I'm hearing oil and gas more. So, for you, what made you look at at copper? >> Uh, well, there's a couple things. I think the size of the market is a big one. Um when you look to make money off the equities, uh the number of investable companies matters or at least to me. And when you get to like the more niche metals, uh we get if you look at rare earth or tungsten or lithium, lithium is a little bit different after the big boom, there's a lot more lithium


companies, but the smaller uh niche markets just don't have the choice. And so what what invariably happens is there's a lot of concentration in in one or two names. And in invariably those usually aren't that cheap. So if you see if you look at precious metals and copper there's more opportunities with good management teams with good projects and that's why I would say my portfolio is probably slanted to the the two besides the under underlying fundamentals oil and gas though you know


we live in a world that's that's uh decarbonizing and I think that is the obvious reason why the fossil fuels uh you know oil gas coal really are out of favor but it's opportunity >> and for copper it's one that I've heard is Uh, I've been hearing for a long time it's a longer term story. Do you think the narrative is it is it coming forward in time in terms of when copper is going to move >> I or I think or hope it is. But but again, you know what I don't put a lot


of stock in in metal narratives because I could see the holes and I've lost money because of that. So I'm I'm what you would consider a bottomup investor. >> Yeah. >> I'll take a metals narrative or theme. I'll understand where I think things might be headed, but I don't invest because I think the copper price is going to go up. I invest in companies that I think have the right management teams. They have a decent project that has catalysts that are going to attract


market attention. And if that copper price or if that metal price goes up, then that's even better. And that's that's sort of the gravy is is when those things sort of come together. But you'll see and then what I've experienced is if you invest in good people with good projects, seemingly you can make money almost no matter where you are. Um you do have to be careful on what those catalysts are. Not all of them are created equal. Uh, but again to me that's that's what's insulated me and


the success I've had has been concentrating on the company first and hopefully getting that market cycle ready or right at some point in the future. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's so tempting for me always to talk about what's going on with the metals, but we will try to focus on your approach. So what types of companies are you looking at right now in that case? Where are you seeing those opportunities? >> That's a really good question. I think and I think that's really key. So,


especially when you're not when you're not ultra certain about where something's headed and we live in a sort of a chaotic world, del globalizing world, we see what's happened yesterday in the Middle East. Who knows how that's going to play out. So for me, what I've concentrated on, and I think it's a really good risk-to-reward uh for investors to look at is is basically those advanced developers, companies with good projects, good teams that have a project that's right on that cusp of


maybe finishing a feasibility study or has finished the feasibility study and is moving towards a construction decision. Um, this is where you can make some money. And I think not no matter where the market goes, but I think at that stage of development, the amount of de-risking that's happened, if the market is confident that that this is going to be built or it's going to be sold, I think you can make a good differential um on your original investment. And so that's how I positioned a portion of the portfolio


both in precious metals and in copper to take advantage of this sort of tail end. And I think again, who knows where this this world is headed. Uh but I think that gives you the best risk-to-reward right now. Well, and how how do you look at timing that because the development stage can be quite long. So, what what entry points are you looking at as well as access? >> Well, if I can find value and that's like sort of the sweet spot I've looked at is companies that have about a PFS.


Um, and when I look at that PFS, if I look at it and and there's definitely a range of quality of PFS, like what the engineering company that completed it, um, that management team, what their background is, um, and I think that you can definitely form an opinion in your head of whether the market's going to recognize this company or this project as being re realistically headed to production. Uh and and again the differential, you know, depending on how you look at it, maybe it's not 10


beggar. Yeah. >> But if I can get if I can take a a 10% position in a company I'm very confident in and I can double that. Um that's sort of the same as if you took a 2% position in an explorer and it went 10x, both have a 20% waiting in your portfolio. But my question would be, what do you think is more probable? >> Right? >> And you know, you have to still make good decisions. And so it doesn't mean it's a slam dunk. Um, but I but what I've learned is that if I put the work


in and I identify a good developer that's got to double. If I put 10% in 10% of my portfolio into it, I can make really good money. And that's been the basis of how I've I've gone gone along. >> Yeah. Just how you explain it there. I think that could be maybe a key mindset shift for for some people. And I wonder, so it has been a year since we last talked. Are there any wins that you could mention from that time period? >> Absolutely. There's there's a number you


know and I think these companies sort of represent exactly what I'm talking about. Thesis Gold is a big one. Uh Thesis has finished their PFS last week. They have major investment by Angle Gold which is a huge step um into Canada into the Tudagon um which exemplifies exactly what I was saying. Uh two other companies that I think that that deserve attention, Liberty Gold, Arizona Sonorin. Uh again, precious metals and copper related. I think they're right in that sort of sweet spot where the market


is going to give them a lot of attention and they both have technical management teams that I think again the market is going to recognize and say, "Hey, even if these guys don't build it, they're probably going to sell it." And so that matters even more, especially what's going on in the world, where they're located, Project Vault being important. Well, it doesn't really affect the gold or precious metal side of things. Um, in Liberty's case, we've seen them be put


into uh the fast 41 uh permitting program, which gives you a concrete sort of timeline on how this is going to happen. And Arizona Sonorin is going to have uh an FID final investment decision at the end of this year. So again, stuff you can't necessarily find across the sector. Um, and I think that, you know, them being located in the States is going to be a very positive thing. >> And I wonder, so do you have a lot of cash on hand right now that you can allocate or how is that looking? Okay.


Well, good cuz we came we're at PDC so I guess Right. Okay. >> And then that's and that's that's sort of how I work. I probably not at any given time but I probably have more cash than a lot of other investors. And that's because I am trying to move things around. Um I know that the market is volatile. And that doesn't mean I won't go buy positions that I took profits in. In fact, that's sort of what I I like to do is go back to the trough when the market retreats. And that's


what happened back in January after conference week in Vancouver. We saw a big correction and that allows me to go back in, buy some stuff on the cheap, replenish those positions and again I can reap those profits back and move on. And you're you're absolutely right. I'm looking for new ideas at PDAC. The last two days have been filled with new meetings with new companies, new stories, and so I've got a lot of work when I go back. >> Yeah. Yeah. Tell me how you strategize when we have these big weekends of


events. You're coming, you're hearing so many talking points, there's the companies in their booths. How do you strategize? So for me, you know, it hasn't changed. What's amazing is the amount of value that I get out of my network. Um, again, the longer I've been in this business, the more experience I have. Obviously, my technical abilities have increased, but my network has expanded and the number of people I've made money with and trust has also expanded and that's where I get these


meetings. Derivatives of companies, spinouts, um, there's there's a number of options to sort of look at. And so the other side is like while I do make a lot of my money off the development or advanced developer side, I do have a portion of my portfolio in exploration and but I do exploration differently than I did in the past. I look I try to derisk it. I like project generation. I like companies that they have high technical acumen teams. They form projects and then they take those and look to JV


them. I think that's for a non-geeologist, which which I'm an engineer. I'm not a geologist. Um, that's a great way for me to sort of derisk expiration, but still have that upside that's captured in the 20% or maybe even a royalty that's that's still attached to these new discoveries. And over time, again, if you look at my biggest winners, they've come from project generation and new discoveries, which uh is an amazing thing, especially after having lost money in exploration


early on in my career. So, so it would maybe take a lot or or more for you to get into a company where you don't necessarily know the team. They would have to make a better impression for you. >> Absolutely. Right. And that's what I I gave I was introduced to a couple new stories and uh and it was it wasn't through people that I I absolutely know. And I said I said straight up to the guy, you know, I don't know you. You're probably pretty good. This the story sounds great. I'll add it to a watch


list. highly unlikely that I buy right off the top and that's going to take time. At least I'm meeting these people in person. Like if it's especially if it's just meeting over Zoom, it's an absolute probably nogo for me. Um I want that that personal connection. I want to understand who these people are that I'm investing in. And again, the my most success has come from my immediate network. Those people that have made you money in the past, typically there's a serial uh association with that. And


I've done this for 10 years on my own. And I can absolutely subscribe to that that notion. >> Yeah. No, no, it definitely makes sense. And I want to go back to a topic we covered last year when we talked. We were speaking about precious metals M&A activity and the potential cascading effect down the food chain. So to what extent do you think that's played out so far and what do you see coming this year? >> It's a good question because that's something I was contemplating myself and


there was a few ideas that I had that I thought would have been dealt with last year and they're not. Um and so you know I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong and uh and but so it's something I've been thinking about particular like situations in Finland uh two companies Orion and Roupert. I thought a deal would have been consummated last year for sure and it hasn't. And so it, you know, it begged me to re revisit my thesis, revisit why I'm invested in it. And, you know, I came to that


conclusion. It's really good to revisit thesises and make sure that you're on that right track. And I think this is the year that it gets consolidated. And I think more than ever that that that deal um is going to get done. and owning Orion has been I to me the better side of that deal owning the smaller company the exploration success the market has given them recognition and I think the market is showing that a deal needs to be made um so like those sorts of M&A things I think right on the cusp and I


do think it's going to be a cascade event because there if you especially if you look at the top of the sector it's just like people's rule applies 20% of the projects are the ones that are going to get made or probably even less than that but it's that top 20% % you probably want to focus on. And that means, you know, 20 out of 100 projects. When you start losing projects because people are buying them, I do think it's has a as a cascade effect because I'm sure there's overlap with these senior


companies looking, they probably have top threes and there and those top threes overlap. So when one goes, they have to pivot to the next. And so I I do think that's going to happen. And I think given where we are, uh, record profits in Q1, I think that again, while I even thought it was last year when we spoke, I think this year we're a year that much more profitable, that much more cash. I think that's the next move. >> Okay. We'll see if it's 2026. I'm going to ask you again next year and we'll see


how it did. But what do you make of the trend? It seems like instead of having it cascade down, we're seeing the big companies in the mining sector try to transact with each other. So, we get these mega mergers that are happening or trying to happen. What do you make of that? >> I think it makes absolute sense, especially if you look at the at the top end for for them to go buy a junior. So, let's say you have you're you're producing a million ounces per year >> and you go out there and you buy a


50,000 ounce uh per year developer and you're going to get that into production right away. So, that's 5% of your total production. That's not big resolution. If you go out there and you add half a million ounces, that's 50. That's 50% of your production you're adding in a deal. And you can only do that if you go buy another mid-tier or anywhere close. We're talking about bigger ounces here. But for perspective, that represents 50% of your total production. That's a huge


impact to your bottom line. And I think for these large companies, especially on the top end, whether it's the royalty companies, the senior producers, that's where the biggest bang for their buck comes in terms of showing resolution to their their shareholders, and hopefully, you know, creating some synergies that um bring lots of savings to operating costs like at the top when those those big guys come together like Nevada Gold Mines did at least at first. >> Yeah, I think really interesting to


follow that. and any other broad trends in the mining industry that you're really following right now could be at the large end of the spectrum although I know you're also focused more on the smaller end. I think just it's what I really find interesting, especially being a newsletter writer, is the amount of sort of generalist or newbie money that's coming in to the sector. And I see that via emails and questions I get. And so I think that's an interesting sign that and you know, and I don't know


if it's ubiquitous, but there certainly is a number of crypto or tech investors, um, Americans too, that are starting to step into the mining industry. They have a ton of questions, and I think that's something to watch. I I think that's something that that shows there is not only the rotation within the resource sector, but there's obviously a more macro rotation going on and it doesn't take much money to really push this sector. And so that's why I'm more confident that um not only that stuff


like the gold thesis, the copper thesis have legs to to to go on their own, but I think you're going to see that flood of money topend funds, but I also at the retail level um stepping in. And again, I can see through my subscriptions, through the emails that I get that there is a lot new lot of new money uh coming to the space. And I think that's an excellent thing and a trend to watch as we get deeper into this this bull market. >> That's so interesting. I hear such varying answers about the degree to


which generalist investors are here. So, can you give me maybe just from your newsletter subscribers, can you give me a profile of these people who are coming in? Well, from my it's it's hard to tell through an email, but I would say I would say that they're they're they're younger, too. Like, I would say that you're looking at millennials. You're looking maybe at the the the younger end of the Gen X, which puts it probably 50s down to 30s uh spectrum. Um, and like again, you know, having been this in the


10 years, that's significantly younger than when I came into this business when a lot of the guys um were in their 50s and 60s and older. And so I think again that's changing and that's a really good thing especially for the longevity of the sector looking 10 20 years out. You need people in their 30s and 40s making money in this sector to keep them there. >> Well, and this leads so perfectly into my fun question that I'm going to try to ask people at PDAC. So if you were a


young investor starting off in the resource space for the first time, you have $10,000, how would you deploy that? >> Oo, and this is completely green like >> No, they don't know. they don't know. >> Uh so the the first thing I would do is look at the royalty companies. I think um and I I've in my presentation I'm going to be giving later today in the letter writers. Uh I talk about you know playing to your strengths but most importantly understanding and admitting


to yourself what you don't know. And if you're a newbie realistically you probably know nothing when it comes to geology, engineering, finance or accounting. Maybe accounting is the one that you could probably rely on. It's the maybe the most straightforward. And I would say that sets you up best to start at the top. Um, get your feet wet with understanding balance sheets, with understanding how these companies grow on the macro scale and then work your way down as you gain more more book


experience and more investing experience down to the the maybe mid-tier producers, the advanced developers and such. The expiration is always so sexy and that's where people want to go. But I'm telling you, for a newbie investor, it's not the place to start. Take your time and and do that. So I again I would start at the top if I if I had $10,000 and hopefully in a year or so I'd be looking to to to come down into the maybe the more risky stuff as I gain more knowledge. >> Okay. Okay. Very solid advice. And I


will let you go. Let's send you back out into the show floor unless you had any final thoughts for investors right now. >> Uh I would just say like the the biggest point for me uh I think is take profits as you get them. Make sure you're one of the ones like we wait sometimes years to come into markets like this. And when you have those profits or you're still holding them, at least have a plan of how you're going to take profits out. You do not want to be an investor that


rides the roller coaster up and then rides it down on the other side. I've experienced it myself. I've seen it with other investors. Please don't be that guy on the roller coaster. Have a plan to take profits out of the sector. either move them into real things in your real life, your mortgage, buying a car, education, um, and then of course rotate the profit, the other portion of the profits into some other new idea. >> Okay, very solid point to end on. Thank you so much for coming on to talk and


hope to do it again hopefully sooner than a year. We'll see. We'll see. >> Sounds good. Thank you for having me. >> Amazing. And once again, I'm Charlotte Mloud with investingnews.com and this is Brian Lenny with Junior Stock Review.