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 I'm Charlotte Mloud with investingnews.com and here today with me is Lobot, CEO of independent speculator.com. Thank you so much for being here. Great to have you. >> Always a pleasure. Hope we can do some help for our audience. >> I'm I think we always do, but we do have a lot to get into today. We last spoke about a month ago, which isn't very long, but >> in today's world, >> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's enough time for a lot to happen. So, for context, at that

time, that was during gold and silver's big price run. And of course, soon after that, they had the correction. Now, we're going back up again. But we had talked about two scenarios at that time. It was maybe we're in a blowoff top or maybe nowhere near it. So, at this point, is it safe to say we're not at the blowoff top? >> Nothing's ever safe in this world. Uh, everything is one tweet away. I don't I don't know if you call a truth social post a tweet, but you know what I mean.

From radical change. But to answer the question, I've actually charted this. I'm not a chartist, but if you look at the peak for gold in 1980 and the peak for gold in in 2011, and if you were to think that the April, sorry, January 27 peak for gold this year was the top and you compare it to the other peaks, it looks completely different. >> Okay, >> so that's really interesting to me. Charting aside, okay, we went up to 5600 about and we pulled back and you know, we're waffling

around 5,300 with the news this weekend. And who knows, we could be back to a nominal all-time high >> this coming week again. That would be completely different from past peaks. Uh which inclines me to if the audience remembers what my answer was is I said we could be in the blowoff top. That was not my base case. I thought we were going into a period of correction and consolidation was likely and I think that's what we're at now. And that is a good thing by the way. um in the be

careful what you wish for department. If we go to a blowoff top, sure I mean immediately it would be great. Our our stocks would go nuts and everything, but that would mean the end of the market cuz what follows the peak after the blowoff top is a bare market. Um Mr. Market doesn't care whether I want one or not, but I don't want one and I don't see it based on what's going on in the world. Never mind the models and the charts. Just looking at reality, I see many many reasons, multiple narratives

vastly supportive of anything governments can't print or lend into existence, but particularly um the monetary metals and those critical minerals in short supply. So, lots of different directions we can go from there, but what I'm saying is that the the market experience we've got now, the data to me is saying no peak consolidation period. >> Or at least that wasn't the peak. Yeah, >> if war makes it peak now, that's a different question. But uh so far it looks like uh I was I was right about

the direction and that's good because it's actually longer term more bullish for the next big move. >> Yes, definitely we have a lot of directions to go in and we will talk about current events but I just want to finish up on those previous events. So when we had the correction in gold and silver made people nervous but for some people it was an opportunity. So did you do any buying at that time? I was hoping to, but it just wasn't enough of a correction. I I mean, theoretically,

yeah, that's exactly what I said. I I we were at Vancouver and I had the ill grace to say that nothing goes straight up forever and what comes after a hockey stick is usually some kind of correction. But the it wasn't that much of a correction. And the stocks, they just barely wobbled. And what's really interesting and this isn't just Del Loboism. Many people have commented on this and some of them were enough to uh wise enough to get ahead of it and say it like Rick Rule was telling us that

the companies their margin expansion in this environment would be recognized by the market. So what's really interesting to me is that we've had gold and silver correct consolidate come back a bit lately but still we're in correction mode. But the stocks after that initial wobble, they kept going up and many of the producers are at all-time highs or near all-time highs. So like the metals went up, corrected, and the mining stocks went up, wiggled, and then kept going up. >> That's really interesting.

And um so bully for everybody that's long. Yay. Uh don't forget nobody goes broke taking profits. But to answer your question, no, I didn't buy anything. the darn stocks kept going up. >> Yeah. >> Fortunately, I already had some. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's that's really interesting to see how that played out. And let's move on and talk about what's going on in the world right now cuz I think everybody is going to be wondering. And this is a situation that

is evolving for context. We're talking on Sunday. We don't know what Monday is going to bring. I think that if people follow the precious metals markets, they know that tensions like this, conflict like this tends to make the prices spike initially and then it cools down pretty quickly. But any thoughts on what we could see this time? >> Well, as we're recording, we are hours from futures trading starting. So, what anything I say could be wrong in just a little bit. Yeah, >> but to your point, yes, if we get a big

surge, particularly in gold and silver, tracking it, you know, as that safe haven response to fear, um the thing to remember is it's not just that it's short and it goes away. It's that whatever spike happens on a big political scare or geopolitical scare like that, it it reverts to mean. So, if the trend was already upwards, which is the case for gold and silver, um then you get a big spike and it reverts to me. Well, it, you know, it reverts to the trend that's still going upwards.

So, so it's it actually comes down to a higher price. If the trend had been downwards and then, oh, yay, we got a big spike that saved us. Well, when that spike goes away, it goes back to trend, which is much lower. So, in the current environment, I mean, it's too late now to try to get ahead of the spike. It is what it is. Uh but but I guess the the caution there would be is if we do see prices go nuts on that fear trade that that would probably fade. So don't chase that. The useful thing is don't chase it. There's

there's always a next fluctuation. Um do not do not give into FOMO Monday morning if you see everything just running away from you. There's there's always another fluctuation. Maybe that's not what everybody wants to hear. They want to hear oh it's going to the moon. But experience suggests that, you know, geopolitical scares tend to produce short-term spikes. And by the way, this particular flare up was was widely telegraphed. I mean, everybody in their cousin, I'm not I'm not a military

expert, but everybody was all the people on news, you know, looks like Venezuela, you know, there's an armada there and what happened last time. So, this was widely signaled. I I I must admit that I was not sure it would happen because the potential impact on energy prices and how important it is to Trump to keep energy prices low this election year in the United States. So I wasn't convinced it would happen, but it's certainly no surprise and it's it's arguable that a lot may be priced in. And I would remind

the audience that the last time um we attacked Iran on a weekend, there was there was like people were just wishing they had bought oil Friday, right? Oh man, it's going to go crazy Monday. If only I had bought, you know, oil Friday. Well, Monday trading starts and guess what? Oil goes down. So, it's a tricky world out there. Uh don't give into FOMO. Let volatility be your friend. That's a Doug Casey quote. >> Yeah, it's very tricky. I appreciate you making the effort to guide us at least a

little bit here and we'll try to post this absolutely as quickly as possible. I'll follow you down the energy direction. But before I do, just because we're talking about how we're waiting to see what gold does. I don't know if you've seen this. I've seen over the weekend people looking at Tether Gold and saying, "Well, this trades all the time, so maybe that can help us look at what's next." Do you think that is a a good proxy? Does that work? >> I'm going to be the honest answer is I

don't know. I didn't think of it. >> I did look at Bitcoin cuz that trades 24/7 >> and I thought it was really interesting when the news broke that Bitcoin's immediate reaction was down and it came back. But I thought, you know, that just doesn't look like gold 2.0 to me. And uh tether gold. Yeah, I I'm just going to have to admit I didn't even think of looking there. I'm I'm an old wolf. I need to be taught some new tricks, but that is an interesting idea. Um but I

wonder about the intermediation there. I'm I'm I'm I don't know the product well enough to be able to say. Uh but that is interesting. >> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know either. >> Check next time. >> Yeah, I don't know either, but it is it's an interesting idea. And don't edit this out, by the way. I like the fact that you caught me not knowing something. You're doing your you're you're not just asking me softball questions. >> Try my best. Try my best. Next time

you'll know. >> Next time I will. >> Yeah. So, let's talk about the oil angle cuz that is pretty interesting. Trump has wanted lower prices, all the drill baby drill angle, and now we have this. And I know you're interested in the oil sector. So at this point, what can we say about the impact there? >> Yeah, if anything behind us, there's so much we could say. We could talk a lot about this, but >> um this was the reason why I did not think for all the Armada and all that

stuff that it was necessarily a foregone conclusion that they would attack. And it might be that, you know, Trump was was actually hoping to to make a deal that to, you know, overall and try to browbeat and and get a deal. Anything he could even call a deal. How much of a deal it was, whether it helped the Iranian people, I don't know. But to be able to report home, hey, we got a deal. Um, and that would have been uh bearish for oil prices, bullish for his agenda. But then suppose the intel came in that

hey we actually have a chance to take out the supreme leader. It's hard for me to say that who's who seriously calls themselves supreme leader. Isn't that seem a little egomaniacal to call yourself supreme leader? But anyway um you know suppose they suddenly got this this shot like oh instead of just getting into a quagmire and all like we can do a decapitation strike then I could see him saying oh then I can report a win. Hey we killed a big bad guy. He's a sponsor of terrorism and so

on. We got him. It's another victory. So, I could see something like that changing the calculus cuz whatever actually happens in Iran next, Trump's got a big win. He can report, right? >> And if that means that energy prices go higher, well, now he also has a bad guy. Oh, that's cuz the Iranians did this, that, and the other. It's not my fault. We were we, you know, we had eggs. They hit me with eggs the first week I got here. Now eggs are 500% cheaper. Um, so you can say, "Well, it's not my

fault. We had inflation down to $1.99 cents a gallon somewhere." But those Iranians, it's all their fault. Who who knows? I I don't pretend to know the future, but I think the significant thing here is that the the calculus in the US doesn't change. I I'll be very surprised if we see, you know, serious boots on the ground. I don't think anybody has appetite for that in the US. Um, and there's a chance that this thing having been telegraphed the way it was that this decapitation strike gives the

US an off-ramp. Maybe Israel doesn't want one, but maybe the US does and it deescalates. So instead of more war, more explosions, higher prices Monday, instead we see the US headed for the off-ramp and things cool off. I I honestly don't know which way that'll go. But if I, you know, it's it's too late now. We're waiting for futures to start. If I'm looking how, you know, how do I play this? It's too late now. But how I play this is I'm not going to chase it.

Like if it surges Monday, if if gold or silver or oil or anything goes crazy on the war news Monday, I'm not chasing it. I'm not going to jump. I'm not going to. It's just against my religion to chase anything. But if on the other hand, there is a cooling or it was priced in and instead we get an an opposite reaction. Suddenly things are getting cheaper. Well, that could create an opportunity. That could create a really investable opportunity because it will surprise people. Let's say oil drops

back a bit, you know, from 67 it goes down back to 63 or something or 60. The oil stocks will magnify that move. >> Yeah. >> And I've got a list of oil stocks that I was interested in buying. They got away from me. If they come back to my target range, I I'll I'll be happy to pull the trigger. >> And can you remind me, we've talked about your interest in the oil stocks previously. What What size of companies are you looking at? I think from most people I've been hearing, they're

looking at the larger ones and people just don't seem to be moving down. makes it a crowded trade. >> Yeah, I'm not well I'm not a geologist anyway, but I'm my experience is much more in hard rock mining than the oil patch. You know, I understand how to look at a 3D seismic and see, oh yeah, that looks like a salt dome, but anybody can do that on the cartoon level. I don't really have any expertise on trying to distinguish somebody who's got a much better target than somebody

else. And it's kind of all or nothing in the oil patch. drill a well and if it hits and it, you know, there's enough feed of paid, you know, it's great. That well is your mind now. You you you know, you cap it and spud it or do whatever they do to it. I'm I'm not an old patch expert, so I don't have all the terminology, right? Admit that up front, but I understand that you take that well, you complete it, and that becomes your mind. Now, you're selling oil into the market. But if you miss, you've got

nothing. So, you spend all this money drilling it, and you you you either succeed or you failed. So that makes it makes me personally reluctant to look at exploration and >> righte especially green fields you like early stage exploration I don't feel that I have any personal competence in knowing who's going to do well in that space so I just just don't go there now if somebody you know how in the US at least they've got these checkerboard patterns in the west where there was

like railroad land and all these you know so you have sections that were off and on and off and on and then sometimes this hole in the pattern comes to market. So there's oil here, oil here, oil around and here was this one section that was not on the market and now somebody got that section. Well, at that point, you know, that's a pretty compelling target. You don't have to be a geologist to see, well, there's oil all around it. You know, what are the odds that this one in the middle didn't

have anything? Of course, that's a fairly rare thing, but you get the idea. Sometimes there's a there's a it's not a wild cat hole. It's not a, you know, pray for divine intervention kind of exploration program. Sometimes if there's something really compelling like that, I'll go there, but that's pretty rare. So yes, if if I am looking to go into the space, don't have stocks already. I'm I'm looking probably at the not I'm looking at the bigger producers

and the royalty place. >> Okay. I think that helps me understand how you're approaching that. And I know >> I'm sorry, not to beat that to death, but just like if somebody else does know better, I'm telling you what I would do with my own money because of my limitations, my own personal limitations. Somebody that knows more than me or has another guru who who >> is really good on this stuff and can guide them. Well, you know, >> obviously the bigger companies are have

much less hockey stick potential. It's, you know, for for Exxon to be a 10bagger would be pretty tough. Right. >> Uh so so I'm I'm I'm just saying no for me, not no for everybody. >> Okay. All right. So people of course they can make their their own decisions. >> They should be independent speculators. >> They they they we all should. All right. I I know I've made you talk about a lot of things that are not concrete and they're in flux. But I did also want to

bring up you recently posted your your 2025 report card for yourself. So that does have some concrete numbers that we can take a look at and talk about. It shows that GDXJ outperformed you, but there's a lot of other interesting takeaways, I think. So I wondered what you would highlight there. >> So okay, let's you know, it's like the doctor says there's bad news and good news. So let's go to the bad news first. Get that out of the way. Yes, it's embarrassing. The GDXJ bit me, beat me.

Um I think that's the first time that's happened. >> But it was a crazy year though. >> The reader and so I'm not making excuses. So I've used that as a benchmark. There isn't really a comparable index to my portfolio. Um so you know the junior producer but those the GDXJ is not really anyway. It's the closest I've found as a reasonable well-known benchmark that we can compare ourselves to and it's usually been pretty easy to beat. Um this time the market was

so exuberant, I won't say irrational because the underlying commodity moved. the market was so exuberant that those stocks really moved. And two things, one is if you're the sort of person who buys low and sell high, you take profits as you go, you realize your gains, you look to rotate into the new opportunity to buy low, you're going to have a different result on a on a crazy year like 2025 than somebody who just like, yeah, goes all long, all in, right? I never go all in. I am, as crazy as it may sound, a

cautious speculator. So in a crazy blowout year, the incautious speculator is going to outperform the cautious speculator. And I think we saw that in multiple fronts. The GDXJ was actually the least of it. There was a bunch of silver companies that have no silver except in their name. You know, penny stocks that I was definitely not keen on that just went crazy. And so let me come back to that. I'm trying to say that yes, the GDXJ beat me, but to me that makes sense in in a very frothy market. A an incautious approach would

do better. And by the way, I'm not sure that that would be true if we had taken the measurement after the correction in January. If we look at the end of December, gold was still going like that, right? We hadn't we had uh the other thing is, and this came from a reader of mine, uh I didn't think of it. um reader of mine pointed out that the my portfolio has copper, oil, uranium, other things in it. The GDXJ is gold and silver. So if we look at just my gold and silver picks, they averaged 197% gains in 2025 versus

the GDXJ's 166. So if we look at just my gold and silver, I actually did beat the GDXJ. But that feels like moving the goalpost to me. I I always just measured my portfolio against the GDXJ. And so the fact is that they beat me this last year. My oh the overall portfolio was uh depending on how you look at it or measure it 125% more or less. Not not too shabby but not 166 that the GDXJ did. The other thing though that I think an interesting takeaway here is and we're not just patting myself on the

back or tooting my horn here. But I think there's a learning lesson here like why did the incautious speculator beat me in 2025 because of the type of year that was. And the other point that you were mentioning and the other interesting is like the silver stocks, silver stocks in particular, if you're a if you're a penny stock, you know, going to 10x is not so difficult. If you're a $5 stock, going 10x is a lot harder of an ask. So if you focus on the quality companies, the producers, the royalties,

or the or the ones who already have a discovery in hand that seems to have some economic merit, you're starting from a higher base. It's harder to get the same level of hockey stick result. And when a result when a market doesn't care, anything with silver in the name goes up. Again, an incautious speculator could outperform a cautious one. So, I'm not trying to deny the results. I am saying that there's an interesting takeaway here because on a year like 2025, that works out. What about a year

like 2012? And the the goal here is is to make money over time to accumulate wealth. Getting lucky one year. If you did that, congratulations. No criticism on my part, but my goal is to make money for myself and my clients, if not reliably, but at least repeatedly or somewhat consistently over time. And you're not going to persuade me to throw caution to the wind and join the FOMO bandwagon just cuz it worked out so great in 2025. Yeah, I think that's what I was hoping the direction that you would go in. It

tells us something interesting about the market right now and and about yourself as well. So, that helps a lot. And another point that I wanted to bring up, this is something you mentioned in, I believe, your newsletter over the weekend, mentioning that if this AI panic that we've been seeing over the past week and I guess further back as well, intensifies, that could create a buying opportunity for uranium stocks, which some people might want to see. Oh, and copper. Okay. So, do you think do

you think that does intensify? Are we getting to the point where we do see that AI correction that I think people really >> think should come? >> No, there's no question in my mind that we're seeing an AI correction. I mean, there the mainstream is calling it the AI scare and, you know, the SAS apocalypse and all these knock on effects. >> So, this is happening, right? There's a, you know, there's there's a few stocks that have held up pretty well, but there

is a a broad and substantial correction of many related and impacted equities. And that's interesting. The real question is, does it accelerate? Do we get to a tipping point where where real panic sets in and we get a waterfall type event? because there's so much money in this that that could have 2008 scale consequences if we actually did that and I I've been worried about that and or I don't want to say hoping because I'm not I'm I try to rise above Shod and Freuda but clearly for everybody as long you

know a big waterfall event everything gets whacked even gold and silver like that immediate liquidity crunch even gold got whacked in 2008 even gold got whacked in 2020 both were great buying opportunities but they happened, right? And the stocks took it on the chin as well. So, if you get a big waterfall event and something as big as this AI thing, you can say, "Oh, that's AI. It's got nothing to do with us." But when the broader markets go into freef fall, you know, you're not selling

what you want to sell. You're selling or your margin clerk is selling whatever they can get a bid on. So, I was concerned about that. I was having taken profits. I don't want to say I was hoping for it, but I was also uh my concern was balanced by the awareness of a potential opportunity. Let's say, you know, I haven't been buying gold and silver stocks lately. I made a bunch of money. I' I've got a bunch still, so I'm long. Haven't been adding. I my idea is to buy low, sell high, not buy high and

hope to sell higher. So, I haven't been adding. If we got a big meltdown, that would unleash my buying. So, there is that that balance there. But the I think more actionable more it's not just wool gathering about what I might do or might have done. I'm looking at the data now. I'm looking how the market's evolving. I think if it was a bubble that hit the pin, it was going to just pop, it would have already. It's been going on for weeks now. And this is maybe the best of

worlds here because, you know, a big pop and if it spread to the broader markets, there could be a lot of carnage all around. And who knows how long it'll take to come back. Uh, I think it would, but it could be pretty scary and and a lot of people could get hurt. But what seems to be happening instead is is more of I wouldn't say orderly, but a deflation rather than a popping of the balloon. There's a there's money coming out. And that's good because it gives investors time instead of being forced

to sell like gold and everything just because the margin clerk is on the phone saying, you know, you're overextended. Instead of that, it's like, oh well, this overhyped trade isn't working anymore. What is? Let's look around. Well, hey, look at these gold stocks, right? So, you could see a rotation here where people have time to choose what is working. And it's not just gold stocks, you know, critical minerals, uh, if oil turns around, not just because of the Iran thing, but

just because it's cyclical bottom is is in, which I think was likely to be happening this year without the Iran. So, anyway, I think that's interesting and I think that's what investors should be watching. There's there's potential here for a serious rotation from last year's trade into, you know, what's hot and what's working. And I think gold and silver still have the mojo. People on mainstream financial media, not as mainstream as IN of course, but those other guys, even them guys, they're

talking about gold and silver now. But copper's not going away. Uranium's not going away. And I mentioned those two in particular because those are the ones I like best of the critical minerals. They have the most supply constraints. They are also energy minerals. And here's here's the the the kicker, right? If you're looking to buy low and this AI scare goes into overdrive and and money is fleeing it, I think that would be near-term bearish for copper and uranium because those are seen as

picks and shovel plays around the AI story. they're not or or that is a a tailwind. We've talked about this. That's an optional tailwind that helps. So if that tailwind goes away, it doesn't change the fundamentals at all. But the immediate response is all those people who thought that uranium was just an AI play and they they bail, they create a buying opportunity. So if anybody has been watching this space and they saw the the crazy swing from like 52- week highs to 52- week lows in the

uranium stocks when the Deep Seek thing happened last year, just over a year ago, if anybody saw that and say, "Dang, I wish I could have bought that one." What I'm saying now to your audience is there's potential for something like that this year if the AI scare goes into overdrive and it puts other things on sale that are really not AI stories. they're, you know, at best it's a tailwind for those stories. >> Okay, I think that makes a lot of sense. And as we get toward the end, I like to

ask you this shopping list question. How is it looking? Just to sum up what we've been talking about, your shopping list. >> Well, like I said, I I I yanked the gold and silver from my shopping list just because I'm looking to buy low, sell high. Uh I had a copper shopping list and they all you know copper went back to new all-time nominal highs at least and there are some uranium stocks. I did I did manage to buy one more where the market came back to me but it's been tough that the story on uranium it's so

obvious the demand case is it's like it's constant drum beak if not every day every week there's some significant story of new demand and uh and yes the AI tailwind has helped uranium a lot recently um but it's been hard to find bargains there so that has me looking again in in the oil patch and it's kind of my luck has me looking again in the oil patch and and then you know war in the Middle East. I don't know if anything is going to work out for me here. But like I said, you know, last time this happened,

we actually got the opposite reaction. Markets open Monday, oil went down. I'd be I'd be happy to buy very selectively in the oil patch if I can. And then you didn't ask this exactly, but one more thing, and this is new, you know, for people who have heard Lobo all the time, say the same things all the time. Well, I I made a mistake. I underestimated how much the platinum group metals would respond with gold and silver. And I was not convinced that these really industrial medals in my view

would tag along for the ride on gold and silver. And they did. and they corrected with and they came back with. So now we have multiple wiggles on the charts with the PGMs mostly tracking silver more than gold. Um but to to my mind that's investable. I I was not sure that would happen this time around. I mean ever since platinum really and gold divorced 15 years ago massive divergence I wasn't sure that platinum would ever really come back from that and the experience that we had in 2025.

So this is it's not a theory. It's not just some hypothesis. What happened was is that the PGMs got their mojo back and tracked the monetary metals. So what I'm saying is adding to my my search here for opportunities. If we have a buying opportunity in gold and silver, I would also look at the PGMs at that time, which I have which I would not have a year ago. >> Just to clarify, do you mean the metals themselves or would you look at stocks? because I know I ask this question to

other people sometimes and Yeah. >> Right. So, yeah. No, I'm not stacking platinum in my safe under the third palm tree to the left. Right. No, it would be the stocks. Um, and it would it would be more of a trade for me than, you know, I'm I'm not sure longer term I want to own platinum miners or palladium miners that the the automotive industry is still in transformation. But if we get if we get let's say if I'm right about gold and silver in a correction and consolidation phase

before the next big move higher it would be normal for them to correct 20% in that space. A 20% retreat from gold where it is now would be over a $1,000 draw down. I think that would produce significant buying opportunities in many of the companies at that moment. What I'm saying is that moment I could see add adding platinum group metals to the mix. You know, an exciting platinum play that was on sale with the gold and silver stocks. And then when gold and silver go back up again, I might still

own those gold and silver companies cuz I like them, their miners that are growing or their royalties that have added to their portfolio or whatever it is, right? Those I would have a different attitude to. Whereas the platinum ones, it would be buy low and and very quickly look to sell high. Okay. Okay. That helps me understand a little better. >> And sorry, if I may just jump in one more clarification. I know we've said this before, but since you asked for a clarification on this, >> I don't speculate on bullion. I don't

even see gold and silver as an investment. It's savings. It is a physical form of wealth that you can be long for which there is no short, no counterparty risk. And it's insurance. It's savings. In my view, I I'm I'm I don't trade it. I I don't look to buy and sell gold and silver. I'm only accumulating unless, you know, some life-threatening emergency comes in and I need to dip into my savings. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's what I thought. And the only reason I asked is because a lot

of the time when I ask about platinum stocks to people, they don't they don't really like them because they're South African or there aren't very many or etc. So, that's that's why I ask. >> There are a few. Um, >> there's some. >> Yeah. It' be hard for me to say much without giving away stock picks here. >> Uh let's just say there are selective opportunities there. But like, you know, if I have physical gold and silver that I hope never to have to sell unless I

really need to and then something happens and I really need to and I've got palladium rounds in there. Who the hell knows what palladium looks like? It looks like silver, right? I I in my local coin shop, I can sell my gold and silver there and I might have to pay some fabrication fee or whatever, but if I show up with palladium, do they even have the equipment to test the palladium or whatever? I don't know. I mean, maybe some really sophisticated ones do. But I just I just don't see any reason to

stack the physical metals there. And by the way, this has come up to copper. No, don't stack copper. There's no such thing as investment grade copper. It's copper and it tarnishes and it takes a garage to hold as much value as you can hold in a couple, you know, gold coins or or silver. So, sorry. No, I'm I'm not into stacking coppers. >> Maybe maybe old pennies in my coin collection, but no copper bars, please. >> Oh, okay. I didn't know that people were trying to do that.

>> People have been asking me that. >> Okay. >> I got two questions about that this last week. >> Oh, there you go. Okay. Well, we won't we won't do that. And I think I think we've covered a lot of ground. we can wrap it up unless you had any final final thoughts. >> Well, the segue would be final thoughts, not a self-promotion here. We just talked about bullion as savings as as insurance in a world like we just have today, you know, brand new war or new stage of an old

war. I mean, I just think it's important to remember that it's not just about, you know, where's the hot stock tip that's going to make me all this money. Owning bullion really is a form of savings. And you know the way the history is going right now, I just sleep better having physical wealth in my direct personal control that I can lay my claws on if need be. And I I think the audience should take that seriously. If you've been if I had no gold or silver at all physical right now, I would buy some.

Even at the current elevated levels or relatively elevated levels, I would I would want to have some cuz after the fire breaks out, it's too late to get the fire insurance. >> Well, I think that's a a good note to end on. So, I'll let you go, but thank you so much for taking the time. I know you had a super busy day, but I really appreciate it. >> Thank you, Sean. >> Of course. And once again, I'm Charlotte Mloud with investingnews.com and this is Lobo with independent speculator.com.