I'm Charlotte McCloud with investingnews.com and here today with me is Will Rhind, CEO of GraniteShares. Thank you so much for being here. Always great to have you. >> [snorts] >> Good to see you, Charlotte. Thanks very much for having me. Of course, great to be kicking off the new year with you and there's so much going on right now. We have gold and silver prices today either at or near all-time highs depending on how it's looking at just this moment. And this is all going on as we have Jerome Powell,


the Fed chair, facing a criminal investigation from the Trump administration. So, it's a pretty tricky situation right now. I know Trump is saying or sorry, Powell is saying this is all to do with the Fed's refusal to lower interest rates quickly enough. Trump is saying he doesn't have anything to do with this investigation. So, can you break down what you're seeing here? >> [sighs] >> Um well, I think I'd like to think, I suppose, that it is a bit of political coercion


that's just sort of being ratcheted up to a new level um based upon as as we all know, it's no secret that the administration wants interest rates lower um that they've been unhappy with the fact that Powell has not lowered rates um to the level that they would like. Uh of course, his term ends in May officially and the administration's interviewing new dates to uh replace Jerome Powell, but I think this is just a sort of a a ratcheting up rhetoric around this whole issue of uh lowering rates and the Fed


independence. Yeah, I think ratcheting up is the right way to put it. And as we look forward at 2026 in terms of interest rates, is there is there anything we can say really with certainty right now? I I guess it feels like we're going to lower, but anything in addition to that that you'd note? Yeah, I think um that's probably the right call um in terms of we continue on this path lower. I think before we know who the new Fed chair is going to be, expectations, I think in the market, um


probably came down a little bit or have come down a little bit um since that sort of barnstorming GDP number that we had uh at the end of last year. So, I think any expectations around, for example, a cut here at January um and now probably off the table. So, I think there is going to be um a cut with more cuts, but clearly we'll have to wait for the new Fed chair and the policy that he or she will will implement. And would you say your thoughts are similar on inflation where we need to wait and see


how the scenario plays out before we really know what's going to happen in 2026? Yeah, I mean, I think if we're talking about official you know, CPI inflation, um the the numbers look good. However, um I think that the the full effects of the tariffs really have yet to to come through the system. So, while everything looks good, I think it's still too early to kind of plant the flag and claim victory. Um so, everything looks okay now, but I think this is the the real test in terms of this year will be


a year plus, you know, since a lot of these tariffs um got implemented and really will be past that point where, you know, ultimately whether it's um distributors, whether it's product manufacturers, supply chain uh people, what they do about the pricing longer term as it sort of seems to solidify. >> [snorts] >> Great point about the tariffs. It feels like they've been left along the wayside a little bit with everything else that's going on. So, was there anything on that


note that you would pull out for investors that you're keeping an eye on? I I think it's again just really the the passing on of those costs and you know, how those costs are being absorbed. You know, it's so far to the extent that the consumer is absorbing the costs, the consumer seems to be absorbing um whatever costs in the system okay and that's really why you see um inflation numbers in check. However, if that changes and either manufacturers choose to to put up prices or distributors


um manufacturers, etc., then we could see that picture changing a little bit this year. And I also, if we put these things together, want to check in with you on your outlook for the US economy this year. Again, I think there's there's a lot of things that we need to wait and see, but any any initial thoughts there? Look, the the economy's in good shape. I think um you know, that's the the main takeaway. You you saw really strong GDP number in terms of some of these problems that that people talked about,


you know, when the president came in. Um inflation was sort of much much higher, some might say out of control. Um the deficit again in a in a bad situation. So, these things have improved dramatically in a short period of time. You've got inflation which again, we're we're not out of the woods yet, but I think inflation is certainly uh much better at the moment than it was clearly 12 months ago. Deficit is looking a lot better. Again, largely that's the impact of of tariffs on the situation and us importing less


and uh exporting more. Um but that picture's looking a lot better. Unemployment has ticked up a little bit, but it's still you know, we're still talking about an economy that's largely in at full employment. So, that there's a lot to be there's a lot to be, you know, there's a lot to be excited about. There's a lot to be happy about. Um I think the last thing I'll say is going back to the markets, of course, is that you know, companies still continue to to post strong earnings and we've got


earnings across the board that came in, you know, Q4 uh strong. And so, while companies continue to report uh strength and raising earnings expectations, you know, the market's going to go higher. Well, that is that's a good path. I did also want to talk to you about what's going on in the stock market because certainly I think in the precious metals sector, people are looking at it and thinking, well, this is overblown. We're due for a correction there, but you know, what what are your thoughts given


what you're you're saying there? Yeah, I mean, in in some respects, there's a number of things going on, but you know, with gold and precious metals more broadly, you know, first and foremost, I'd start with it's a dollar story um probably is the is the main thing here. And you know, for the last 12 months or so, the dollar has been uh on a downward trajectory which benefits hard assets, but particularly gold uh and other precious metals. I think couple that with the geopolitical tensions um that we see


around the world which the the stock market, you know, has largely shrugged off. Um but I think that has been reflected more in the price of gold and price of precious metals more broadly um in terms of that elevated risk premium, whether it was Russia-Ukraine or whether it's Israel-Gaza. Now, you've got Venezuela, you've got Iran thrown into the mix. You've got the US being a bit more assertive um from a militarily. And so, from that perspective, you've got risk premiums increasing. And then, of


course, add to the add to that the latest news that we just talked about about the criminal probe um into Fed chair Jerome Powell. And you know, you get that uncertainty that is reflected largely in the gold price um but other metals. So, I think that you know, you're in the situation where on the one hand you have a stock market and economy doing well, but the stock market seems to so far have shrugged off a lot of these risks that we're talking about are alive and well and manifest themselves in the gold


market. Yes, yes, I think very much so. There are so many things alive and well under the surface that are probably going to come further to the fore as we move on. And on the note of geopolitical tensions, I did want to bring up Venezuela. I know this is only really happening last week. It already feels like it's a little bit in the distance distant past just based on how quickly things are moving. But you know, there's been a lot of focus there on what that could mean for the oil market. But what


about what about precious metals? What are you seeing as the potential impact there? Yeah, I mean, I think it's twofold. So, again, it creates additional uncertainty. So, the one part that we all know is the removal of Maduro and his wife. Um the bit that everybody now doesn't know or at least the questions are being asked as to, okay, well, what happens next? And you know, how does this play out not just over the next few few weeks, a few months, but next few years. And there's uncertainty around that at


this point. So, that creates uncertainty. Uncertainty is good for gold. I think the second part is that there's a question mark over while everyone's talking about oil, Venezuela has a lot of natural resources including base metals, including precious metals, and including rare earth metals which of course are critical in terms of the technology race particularly between US and China. And so, that I think is a is a story that we'll learn more about going forward, but so far it's really


been dominated by the oil conversation. Yeah, I think that's really interesting to talk about what it tells us about the growing importance of hard assets for countries around the world. And there's been at least a little bit of discussion about, all right, so the US has done these actions in Venezuela. Does it mean it's going to make moves on different countries, for example, Greenland? Any any thoughts you would share there? >> [snorts] >> Yeah, I mean, I think again, it's just


um we're in a different sort of situation now where uh I think the administration knows very clearly what they want um and what their strategic priorities are. And, you know, they're prepared to to try and use whatever means they can um to achieve those goals, Venezuela clearly being one of them and of course uh Greenland uh another. But, I think this goes down this goes again back to on the one hand, you know, people will say that um there are geopolitical uh benefits to, you know, getting adversaries like the Russians


and then the Chinese out of the Western Hemisphere. And of course, that that is that is true. I'm sure that's a big part of it. But, the other part is access to to metals, access to minerals, access to energy, particularly as we are facing this huge shortage of power uh when it comes to AI, of basic materials when it comes to, you know, the electr- trification of everything in the economy, and critical rare earth metal metals minerals um to the most critical technologies, be they consumer


technologies uh or for national defense. So, I think it's all in the same mix. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I definitely see what you're saying there. And we've covered a lot of ground in terms of what we should be keeping an eye on for gold in 2026. Is there anything else that you would add to the list, things that you are watching in terms of factors that could move the gold price? Yeah, absolutely. Um I think that, you know, the one thing that we haven't touched on are of course the fundamental


factors. And the fundamental factors have kind of been left by the wayside a little bit with all the other stuff going on. Um which of course is really, in my opinion, is the the main reason that gold's gone to all-time highs. However, you know, we can't ignore the fact that the fundamentals for gold and for other precious metals are incredibly strong. In other words, for the gold market in particular, central banks remain strong buyers, net buyers of gold. Um this is a trend that's been


around for the last 10 years plus, but it increases uh as [clears throat] we go forward. And so, you have a big bid on the gold price from central banks around the world, from investors of course around the world. Um this is something that's going on. Add that to silver, other metals like platinum, and you have markets that have been underinvested in for years, and therefore a in in a situation where the market is in deficit. In other words, there's more demand for the metal than there is


supply. And these are not things that can be corrected um very quickly. And so, that the fundamental picture is driving not just gold, but silver and and platinum as well. Well, and let's make sure we talk about silver. And I think your answer also ties into what I was going to ask you. So, silver we typically hear gold moves first and then silver follows. So, we've seen a massive breakout in silver since we last talked. Is it following gold higher or is it moving also because of its own silver


specific factors? How are you seeing it? It it's a bit of both. Um and, you know, people will al- always look to, you know, which one is the most, you know, persuasive um for their particular investment thesis. But, in my mind, it was kind of inconceivable that you could have gold at an all-time high, at least, you know, 6 12 months ago, um and the price of silver not reacted the way that you would have perhaps thought, um at least historically. So, silver was always going to play that catch-up role to gold. Um and


historically in a market where, you know, gold prices are rising, then you would expect, all things being equal, silver prices to to rise slightly faster because it's a more volatile metal. Um but, that didn't happen until quite recently. And I think it's the confluence of factors whereby a lot of people perhaps thought that they'd missed out on gold um after the silent rally that's happened in gold over the last couple of years. People started to look for the next uh metal to


go, so to speak, um and found silver. Silver just so happened to also have great uh fundamentals. It was a market in deficit. Um people started to buy silver. Price of silver's going up. And then I think the same thing is happening to platinum now, where platinum again have been stuck in a in a range for for many years. Platinum used to trade at a premium to gold, um which in today's money obviously would mean a platinum price per ounce of well over $4,000 an ounce, um almost double where platinum


trades today after a very big strong rally. So, I think people looking at platinum as well and thinking is that the next one? People definitely are wondering about what's going to happen next for platinum after spending years in those range-bound levels. So, do you do you see that as conceivable, as likely that platinum could go back to trading at that premium to gold at some point during this cycle? Yeah, because we're in a world where um you know, this is a precious metals bull cycle. Uh


I don't know if I've seen a better cycle or a more, you know, sharp upswing for gold, silver, and other precious metals certainly in my career. You know, you got to look back to probably the the gold peak of 2011 for something similar. Um but, you know, back in those days um you had uh significantly higher, you know, platinum price vis-à-vis gold. So, I think people looking at that today and saying that this is a precious metals bull market and, you know, it's really anybody's guess as to how high this could go.


It really it really is those higher prices are getting more and more realistic as time goes on. And I know you're not so much of a price-predicting type of person, but looking at gold and silver in 2026, do you have a range in mind? Probably a uh direction in mind would be up, but anything that you can say? Yeah, I mean it I I don't know. I mean, it's something that's, you know, could gold get to to 5,000, 6,000? I mean, it's anybody's guess. But, I think, you know, when I was thinking about the gold


price so towards the end of last year, I thought, you know, gold was definitely going to hit 4,000 an ounce. Um and my my sort of view was that would happen sometime this year. And obviously, that happened before the end of last year. So, I think we're just in a in a very unusual situation where um you know, gold is rallying rallying hard along with other precious metals. And we'll have to see how far that can go. I mean, when we look back to other, you know, periods like 1980, you know, the price


of gold moved, I think it was eightfold um from sort of trough to peak in that time. And so, clearly when you look back on some of those other periods for for gold and silver particularly where they went to [snorts] all-time highs, um then we we could be talking about a lot higher price than we are today. Well, and maybe a better way to look at it, it does feel like we're in kind of an acceleration phase. I I know not just you, there's many people I've spoken to, they give a price prediction and it comes way sooner


than they had expected. So, do you think that type of acceleration is is set to continue? Well, I think what people would say, myself included, is if you look at gold um through the lens of different ratios, so some sometimes uh an interesting way to look at it. So, if you look at gold-silver ratio, or if you look at something like the Dow-gold ratio, or gold against the MSCI World, or these other ratios, then I think it certainly shows you that gold has further to go against equities um if you


look at historical uh ratios. So, just based upon a gold versus broad equity index, it would show you that gold has further to go. And either in with some of the other uh metal ratios, and I and I think, you know, again, we're going back to the the situation that we're in. We're in a situation where there's global uncertainty, the arguably the world order that people have been used to for the last sort of, you know, 50 years or whatever is is in the in the process of being upended.


Maybe that's a bit dramatic, but, you know, certainly for for some people, that's how they see it. And and from that perspective, we're moving to from a globalized world to somewhat of a deglobalized world or more polarized world. That brings more risks um and, you know, that's part of the reason why you know, at this period, people are people are stocking up on on assets such as gold. Well, you mentioned people are stocking up. Definitely, we can see that. To what extent do you


think gold, silver, even platinum are becoming more more into the mainstream for investors? I I think this is a good question. There's sort of two parts to this that um on the one hand, I think gold has never been more in people's consciousness than it is today. And I think we have to thank the the Bitcoin and crypto community for that, for really, you know, shining a spotlight on gold in perhaps in an ironic way, because I don't think that was ever their intention, but um to to shine a light on


an asset that is independent from the traditional financial system, that's not subject to the traditional credit and counterparty risks, that can't be printed like paper money, that sits independently. All of these sort of aspects that were told about Bitcoin cryptocurrency, I think people realized again or re-realized that, hey, this is what people have been saying about gold for thousands of years. Um so, that that's sort of one thing that I think um And then, the other thing I think is


that um you know, it's really just now that I'm starting to see more mainstream coverage of gold and the gold rally. Now, look back to previous gold peaks, um whether it was 2011 or whether it was subsequently um in periods such as 2020, but when gold went to all-time highs, it was almost as if the world was about to fall apart. You'd have on mainstream, you know, shows, whether it was the front page of major newspapers, they would be talking about gold's in a bubble, gold's in a bubble, gold's in a


bubble all the time. And this time, at least for the last couple of years, I haven't heard any of this. And it's really, I think, only recently that it's started to to uh sort of raise its head in the mainstream sort of publications, um where I I see some like proper discussion, coverage of what's going on in gold, what's going on in silver. So, from that perspective, I think if you look on it as sort of a bubble meter or something like that, then uh just anecdotally, I would say that um we're


still somewhat away from the mania that that we've seen in previous cycles. Very interesting perspective. So, thank you for sharing that as well. And just as we're getting to the end here, any final thoughts that you would leave investors with as we're heading into the new year? It seems like it's going to be a pretty interesting one. >> [snorts] >> Look, I think there's a lot of a lot of reasons to be optimistic um about 2026. You know, whenever there's geopolitical


tension situations, you know, these things that that perhaps seem scary, they do create opportunities for investors, for those that are willing to to take risks, those that are willing to think longer term. But it's also a case that, you know, markets are, you know, at or around all-time highs. It's difficult to find something that is {quote} {unquote} undervalued. And I think that's why, you know, people are looking to commodities um for the first time in a long time. And, you know, perhaps


that might not be gold per se, but they're looking at things like platinum, looking at other commodities, which, you know, people haven't thought of just the asset class more broadly um in terms of commodities. So, it's something that's getting a bit more um conversation now, but as well, you know, if people are worried about uh markets at highs and just looking for to take a bit of more defensive stance, um then we see a lot of that, you know, manifesting in in gold as well at the moment.


>> [snorts] >> Yeah, it looks like that is certainly a trend that will continue. So, thank you so much for coming on today to go over gold, silver, platinum, the markets. This was great. Thank you so much, Charlotte. Always a pleasure. Thank you for having me. Of course. And once again, I'm Charlotte Macleod with InvestingNews.com, and this is Will Ryan with GraniteShares. Thank you for watching. [music] If you like this video, make sure you hit the like button and subscribe to our


channel. We'd also love to hear your thoughts, so leave us a comment below.